Sketchup Applications

Chad_UB

I'm a student in urban design and am taking a 3D visualization class. We had a guest speaker come in from a development company (a pretty big one) and he told us that if he were to hand in a Google SketchUp model to his boss he would probably be fired. Does this mean that SketchUp is widely considered a non-professional software? Is there a future in Google SketchUp when it will be more accepted in the professional community?

solo

No, it means there are still 3D snobs out there that consider a free app like SU below their standards, even though they have never taken the time to use it.

The truth is the SU is the most widely used 3D cad app out there for architecture, every firm has it if they admit it or not.

mitcorb

Wow, Solo:
I was preparing a reply and got bumped off and while I was logging back on, I saw your reply.
Look at mine:

Just goes to show there's a snob in every crowd.
Sketchup has always been promoted by its developers as a "quick" visualization tool and was intentionally designed for simplicity, as in short learning curve, no complicated procedures, and so forth.

It is obvious you can get acceptable results from Sketchup, and I will bet that snob would never see the difference. However, precision, in the true sense of the word, is not Sketchup's strong point.

brodie

True responses, but I think as a more direct answer to the questions - the general perception among professionals IS that SketchUp is a nonprofessional tool (obviously most of us here would disagree with the reality of that statement but it doesn't change the current perception). In fairness to those (misguided) folks, there are certainly reasons for that perception. The amount of complete junk coming from SU far outweighs that coming from [name of any other 3d modeling software]. Combine that with how SU has been marketed (as mentioned above) as a "sketch" tool, and it furthers the stereotype. And then if someone finds out there's a Pro version, and goes on to discover the insignificant differences between it and the free version...well that doesn't further the cause either.

In my opinion, the perception won't be turning around any time soon (certainly not by anything Google is doing). I've got a friend who has used SketchUp briefly in the past but now uses Rhino. It's taken many discussions and explanations, over the last couple years, as to the capabilities of SketchUp along with him seeing the models I produce (showing him SilverShadows eye-candy models didn't hurt either ), for him to finally begin to peel off his layer of open disdain for SketchUp. I guess it didn't help the other day, though, when I let the cat out of the bag regarding SU's UV capabilities - or lack thereof

-Brodie

solo

@unknownuser said:

I guess it didn't help the other day, though, when I let the cat out of the bag regarding SU's UV capabilities

Not to worry, we have a very talented coder working on this as we speak, I'm confident that he will take care of this soon.

jeff hammond

@chad_ub said:

I'm a student in urban design and am taking a 3D visualization class. We had a guest speaker come in from a development company (a pretty big one) and he told us that if he were to hand in a Google SketchUp model to his boss he would probably be fired. Does this mean that SketchUp is widely considered a non-professional software? Is there a future in Google SketchUp when it will be more accepted in the professional community?

hard to say without knowing the guy's actual job and which context he was speaking in..

i mean, if it's his job to hand in a file created in vectorworks than sure, maybe he really would be fired..
context wise, i'm sure he was joking though to an extent without really getting into his reasonings

if he's working for a big development company then more likely than not, they're using software with BIM capabilities which is fully missing from sketchup (and from what i gather, will always be missing from sketchup)..

brodie

@solo said:

@unknownuser said:

I guess it didn't help the other day, though, when I let the cat out of the bag regarding SU's UV capabilities

Not to worry, we have a very talented coder working on this as we speak, I'm confident that he will take care of this soon.

That would be wonderful. I've tried several of the current solutions [read: workarounds] with very little luck. Make sure and announce it from the hilltops when it comes out.

-Brodie

tfdesign

Hi Chad.

I would tend to agree with Solo. There is also an unbelievable amount of snobbery in educational establishments- mainly because large institutions such as universities can afford the 'industry standards' like 3DS Max and AutoCAD. But the reality is that most smaller architectural and design companies will use whatever will save them the most amount of money. We were told on my degree that the industry standard was Autodesk Architectural Desktop (basically AutoCAD), and we weren't to use anything else. I made a stand for SketchUp, and was laughed at.

One of the arguments against the use of SU was its apparent export of double-sided normals, meaning that exported models were going to be twice the size. This is of course nonsense. SU doesn't export these- or not at least if exporting DAE files. The precision thing is another myth. I so far haven't had any more issues with SU over precision as I have with any other 'CAD' system- including AutoCAD.

While at university, I undertook a survey on who uses what, and why, and I actually found that the most popular app in Architecture here in the Midlands was either Vectorworks or a combination of AutoCAD LT and SketchUp. Only one major RIBA-based company used ADT, no one else could afford it.

Just take a look at the utter brilliance of talent of many of SCF's members, and you will realise that most of this snobbery is simply nothing more than hot-air, and at the end of the day, you will be hard pushed to notice a difference. To be honest, most clients don't give a stuff, they just want the work done.

Tom

Chad_UB

Thanks you for the replies. I guess that it is coming to BIM technology. I heard that the future of design-build is in BIM and if sketchup isn't capable, then that sucks.

thomthom

@tfdesign said:

One of the arguments against the use of SU was its apparent export of double-sided normals, meaning that exported models were going to be twice the size. This is of course nonsense. SU doesn't export these- or not at least if exporting DAE files.

Also - storage is dead cheap these days.

Regardless - statements like that speaker you had; I'd be cautious of accepting any "facts" from such a person. It's a good indication that the person make strong statements about anything without much knowledge.

I always say when this topic appear: a spade is a spade - use the tool you need to get the job done. No tool is the best option for any job.

I came with a 3dsmax background when I started my current job. Here SketchUp is the de facto modelling tool as it allows for most people at the office to be able to handle 3d models. This is also a point to consider - depending on where you work - the pipeline might require you to use a specific software.

SketchUp is a good mesh modeller - but for non-casual users you really want to look into plugins and mold SU to the tool you need. And realise when you need to use another software. Animation for instance is an area where I'd never use SU.

brodie

@chad_ub said:

Thanks you for the replies. I guess that it is coming to BIM technology. I heard that the future of design-build is in BIM and if sketchup isn't capable, then that sucks.

Well, SU certainly isn't a BIM tool. I've seen some posts here about making it into one, but I can't imagine why, myself. I could see some more parametric type abilities, but not full BIM. If your boss wanted a BIM model and you gave him something in SU, I could see why he'd be upset. It would be like your teacher asking for a 10 page book report and doing it in Excel.

But if you're mocking SU because it's not BIM, then it makes as much sense to mock 3ds Max as well.

-Brodie

Chris Fullmer

We've done master plans, specific plans, strategic plans (etc) utlizing SketchUp for modeling entire cities, large portions of cities, shadow studies, massing studies, detailed design visualizations for many many cities, including Charlotte North Carolina, Boston Massachusetts, Dallas Texas, Denver Colorado, Los Angeles California, and on and on.

The cities don't turn you down if you can make a 3d model of their city in a fraction of the time that another firm can

Krisidious

to me if someone handed me a skp my thoughts would depend on the situation...

if this was ten minutes after I had spoken with him about some ideas I had for a new building and hew was showing me his sketchup model I would be impressed...

if he were handing me a model and considered it final construction docs because every conceivable dimension was already in it in real scale... I might be upset. even though his argument was sound.

I've paid damn good money to learn how to use autocad and then spent damn good money on buying it only to see sketchup blow it's doors off for free... give me uv mapping and just a little more features and perhaps ruby on layout and I'll burn my autocad copy and never look back.

more than being a snob, I would say that the gentleman is narrow minded, and that in business is a losing mindset.

jeff hammond

@unknownuser said:

Well, SU certainly isn't a BIM tool. I've seen some posts here about making it into one, but I can't imagine why, myself. I could see some more parametric type abilities, but not full BIM.

i dunno, i think some BIM stuff would be great to see in sketchup..

it'd be so nice to have material lists/cost estimates attached to components.. that's pretty much the least favorite part of a project for me and if i could just assign certain attributes as i drew them then at the end had all this info available and calculated for me, i'd be one happy man

mac1

Chad
Think your priority is out of whack. Any good engineering company will have their way of doing business and using one program vs another is not a career path. Ones I have dealt with will quite often put there new hire grads through training programs including the use of their design software. Programs come in and out of vogue over time frames so hanging your hat on one is not good job security. If you are targeting one particular company find out what they use, get up to speed on that so it sets you apart from other applicants. If that does not fit in with various persons thoughts all I can say is get real

Chad_UB

@mac1 said:

Chad
Think your priority is out of whack. Any good engineering company will have their way of doing business and using one program vs another is not a career path. Ones I have dealt with will quite often put there new hire grads through training programs including the use of their design software. Programs come in and out of vogue over time frames so hanging your hat on one is not good job security. If you are targeting one particular company find out what they use, get up to speed on that so it sets you apart from other applicants. If that does not fit in with various persons thoughts all I can say is get real

I'm a second year grad. student so I guess it's time for me to start researching specific companies that I want to work for. I'm not mocking sketchup - I personally love it. It's a lot of fun to use. I am slightly familiar with Maya (I can do modeling, UV'ing and texture baking, but not too much more) and even more acquainted with Creator (which is so damn expensive that no one probably uses it).

What I would love is a career in modeling the built environment and various urban design proposals (transforming streets, etc.), but I also want to be involved in the research and analysis that goes into the decision making process on what it is exactly we should do. Would a position like that even exist?! haha.

tfdesign

@chad_ub said:

What I would love is a career in modeling the built environment and various urban design proposals (transforming streets, etc.), but I also want to be involved in the research and analysis that goes into the decision making process on what it is exactly we should do. Would a position like that even exist?! haha.

Unfortunately this is another college myth- that the streets out here are paved with gold. They aren't. You have to make it work. If you like modelling, then brilliant- welcome to the club! However you must remember that once a house is built, it isn't going to be knocked down for a while, so you must chase all the work everyone else is chasing, unless of course, you also specialise skills in other areas- not just CAD. Just see CAD as a tool, and you will be fine. The thing with universities, is that the lecturers do this modelling stuff everyday- therefore, realistically, if you want to do CAD everyday, you really should be teaching it!

Sounds like you've already got it sussed anyway!

Chad_UB

@tfdesign said:

@chad_ub said:

What I would love is a career in modeling the built environment and various urban design proposals (transforming streets, etc.), but I also want to be involved in the research and analysis that goes into the decision making process on what it is exactly we should do. Would a position like that even exist?! haha.

Unfortunately this is another college myth- that the streets out here are paved with gold. They aren't. You have to make it work. If you like modelling, then brilliant- welcome to the club! However you must remember that once a house is built, it isn't going to be knocked down for a while, so you must chase all the work everyone else is chasing, unless of course, you also specialise skills in other areas- not just CAD. Just see CAD as a tool, and you will be fine. The thing with universities, is that the lecturers do this modelling stuff everyday- therefore, realistically, if you want to do CAD everyday, you really should be teaching it!

Sounds like you've already got it sussed anyway!

Well, 3D modeling isn't really a part of the department in my school - it's just something that I wanted to learn so I went out and learned it. GIS software is a tool that urban planners use, and that they teach in my department, and I also know that (ArcGIS). I guess what I am looking for is a landscape architecture firm or something along those lines....maybe...I don't know...some kind of consultant firm.

Chris Fullmer

@chad_ub said:

What I would love is a career in modeling the built environment and various urban design proposals (transforming streets, etc.), but I also want to be involved in the research and analysis that goes into the decision making process on what it is exactly we should do. Would a position like that even exist?! haha.

That is what I do very often. Get in to Urban Planning. I'm a landscape architect, but I helped in our planning department with graphics and 3d modeling for a few years (now I'm happily back in the landscape department). But some of my tasks were to:

Model the entire city of San Jose CA in SketchUp, model the city of San Bruno CA, El Cerrito CA, Model over 40 building prototypes for Santa Monica CA, model model the downtown core of Santa Monia, model 4 specific intersections in Santa Monica to a detailed designed level, model a transit oriented develpment in Culver City CA to a design detail level......on and on. When I wasn't doing 3d models, I was often making photo simulations of our proposed designs to show the city what the plan was giong to look like.

So yeah, your dream exists. It is pretty standard in Urban Plannning.

What are you getting your master's in?

Chad_UB

My master's degree will be in Urban Planning with a specialization in urban design. I live and want to stay in Buffalo - a great city with no job growth hopefully those who hold public office can get their acts together and realize that some peoples' hopes of returning to a great industrial manufacturing city are dreams we would be chasing forever and never achieving.