Why don't more people use SketchUp to place 3D components?

bytor

Wow,

Great thread and discussion here. It has kind of split off into 2 directions, and I have a couple comments on each.

First - about the (to date) apparent limited use of Sketchup as a planning tool by placing 3d components. I feel there is a hesitation on the part of general people that are non-professionals because there is no packaged easy "House Planner" / Garden Planner" / "Kitchen Planner" interface or kit of components. Sketchup is capable of filling this niche - but supporting "kits" of components will need to be packaged with quick and easy tutorials for potential hobbyist users to make the leap. What baffles me though is the limited use by professionals - in particular for interior design. I think as more manufacturers make their product available in .skp format this will change.

Second - the Google 3D Warehouse has become such a watered down collection that has bloated to the point where it is often tedious to find something usefull. While as a 3D advocate - I love that kids and hobbyist alike are taking to creating with sketchup. However, when I am searching for say a specific make and model of car for a client - I have to sort through what seems like a million customized / tricked out versions to hopefully find what I need. I realy like the idea of a registered version of the site where content would need to meet a min. level of competence before being included. I have been to other sites that rate content uploaded - some work, and some don't. I think this site is a good example of where participants seem to police themselves. While I don't necessarily have a use for all of the content, I don't thinj I have actually downloaded anything that wasn't of good quality.

Just my thoughts,
Bytor

Rob D

My tuppence worth...
I remember when as a 2D Autocad draughtsman I tried to get to grips with 3D for the first time. It was the concept of 3D space that was the big hurdle. I felt lost in the vast space - seemingly with no anchor. I must say it took me a good while, and a few tutorials to really get to grips with it - and all the while I felt uncomfortable.
It's much easier in SketchUp because of the blue line, but I still think this is the main issue with any 3D CAD. Kitchen design is actually 2D with one or two high level cupboards thrown in. In order for SU to compete, each furniture component should come with a 2d tile representing it in plan. Once a kitchen has been designed in plan using tiles, it's then a simple matter of clicking "reload" to replace the 2d with 3d components. Anyone know of a Ruby that could automate this?

Rob

Al Hart

@rob d said:

My tuppence worth...

In order for SU to compete, each furniture component should come with a 2d tile representing it in plan. Once a kitchen has been designed in plan using tiles, it's then a simple matter of clicking "reload" to replace the 2d with 3d components. Anyone know of a Ruby that could automate this?

Rob

We could create a Ruby file to "Alter" each component before you place it, to put the existing 3D Geometry in a "3D Layer" within the component, and add a new 2D layer, which is a flat hidden line of the geometry. Then the user can turn these two sub-layers on or off for the whole drawing to make it easier to work in 2D mode.

We are already processing the components to allow 2D or 3D display in our component selection dialog.

NOTE: We discussed adding the 2D Layer among our group, but we felt that perhaps switching SketchUp to top view, - non-perspective, and using wire frame or hidden line would do this pretty well already...

Daniel

Al, I think the simple answer to your question is that people do not know how to use the program. I always hear the excuse "I don't have time to learn it" from my compatriots (in and out of the office) when I bring up the subject of SU. As far as not seeing more questions about placing components, it is like you said, preaching to the choir.

CraigD

I have to tell all of you, that your thoughtful insights have been good for us and that we are listening!

Keep it coming! We are trying to make all aspects of Google SketchUp, the 3D Warehouse, and Google Earth better for YOU!!

We appreciate hearing from you!

Thanks guys!

- CraigD

a4chitect

one more thing: maybe it would be useful to integrate 3dwarehouse into sketchup since sketchup is the sole purpose of the warehouse at the moment, and then we could browse the warehouse in a 3d environment native to sketchup and wouldn't have to think about switching between sketchup and the browser, and thinking about where to save the downloaded file (then care to delete the file it it doesn't fit)

~like using the google-earth streaming technology but not for the GE but for sketchup instead

[but I know that the web and google earth is more important to google and therefore don't expect the 3dwarehouse concept to remain off-browser]

Baker518

When I am adding a component to a drawing, I usually try to find it in 3D warehouse. If its not there I take the time to research it, as best as I can, and then draw it to suit my needs. My failure is not adding it to the warehouse once I am satisfied with it. That is something I will try to do more of in the future. I know that doesn't answer the main question, just wanted to see my name up in lights, sorry.

Mike

CraigD

@baker518 said:

That is something I will try to do more of in the future.

(Re: Adding back to the 3D Warehouse) Thanks Mike! It's good content that makes all the difference! We appreciate all of the contributors of quality models!

Cheers,

 - CraigD

Jim

I'm short on time, so this is really a rough draft.

I think it's not so easy to create convincing interiors. It takes more than drawing a box and placing some furniture in it to make it work.

The models for an interior need to be higher quality than the average 3d warehouse model. Unless you use high-segment arcs, you are going to see individual segments simply because the camera needs to be closer for an interior scene.

It's hard to "mesh" SketchUp's sketchy style with photo-realistic textures.

One major deficiency is interior lighting. Lighting is a much larger part of the interior design experience than exterior. On exteriors, there's usually only 1 light source of concern.

Because of these points, your best option is to generate a photo-realistic render. But that brings another level of complexity to the process.

I'm not convinced SketchUp is as easy to use as I keep hearing.

CraigD

@jim said:

I'm short on time, so this is really a rough draft.

I think it's not so easy to create convincing interiors. It takes more than drawing a box and placing some furniture in it to make it work.

The models for an interior need to be higher quality than the average 3d warehouse model. Unless you use high-segment arcs, you are going to see individual segments simply because the camera needs to be closer for an interior scene.

It's hard to "mesh" SketchUp's sketchy style with photo-realistic textures.

One major deficiency is interior lighting. Lighting is a much larger part of the interior design experience than exterior. On exteriors, there's usually only 1 light source of concern.

Because of these points, your best option is to generate a photo-realistic render. But that brings another level of complexity to the process.

I'm not convinced SketchUp is as easy to use as I keep hearing.

Hi Jim, I think you make some good points. My concern with this logic however is that you are mixing "modeling" and "rendering" into the same bucket.

I believe that you won't find an easier, faster modeler out there, with the accuracy of SketchUp. Add to that the ability to very simply add photo realistic textures to your models and I think that you will find SketchUp is an excellent modeling tool for interiors.

Many folks here will agree with you in regards to photo realistic rendering and lighting, which is why there is a Rendering section to this forum. There are multiple options to easily take a SketchUp interior, add lights and shadows, and create a breathtaking interior scene. I've glanced upon many amazing interior renders, created in SketchUp and rendered using one of the favorites discussed in the Rendering sub-forum.

One possible tip I have for those who are creating interiors in SketchUp is to change your camera field of view in the VCB (Value Control Box) box in the lower right corner of the Model window. If you set it to something like 75 degrees, you'll find that it's whole lot easier to work in tight, interior confines.

Another tip is to use Section Planes/Cuts to remove some interior obstructions and give you a better, more clear view of the work area.

I hope this helps, and that you truly spend a little quality time playing with SketchUp. There a tons of people here who are more than happy to help you along your path of discovery, so don't give up on us just yet!

Cheers,

- CraigD

syburn

to study space and make sketchy sketches, then sketch up is fine. it really really needs simple interior lighting though............ and a cheating / magical way to make tranparent/reflective things as one does when one "sketches" with hands

chango70

You can get the Lightup plug-in can't you? I've seen some beautiful work done with it. Haven't bought it yet because its a bit pricey atm.

Al Hart

Here is a reflection example one of our furniture clients created - by making the floor transparent and mirroring the rest of the geometry through the floor to make the floor appear reflective.

(Image courtesy of ProjectMatrix)
(Rendering created with SketchUp - no third party rendering add ons)

chango70

Wow cool! thats what I am talking about! Nice chairs, did you get them from 3D Warehouse?

Al Hart

@unknownuser said:

Are you able to share the girl in this image?
It would be a welcome component to many if you could.

I contacted the client who made the rendering. She is from the Google 3D Warehouse (from Antics Technologies):

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=a38fd74a5a5900412251f6cc77ae450c&prevstart=0

Al Hart

The chairs are from the libraries which come with ProjectSketch - a new office furniture placement application for SketchUp being released by one of our clients - ProjectMatrix.

ProjectSketch is free with a generic furniture library. These chairs are from the Herman Miller library. There is an annual fee for use of the manufacturer specific libraries.

There are 3D symbol libraries available for more than 60 manufacturers:

http://www.projectmatrix.com/mfg/index.htm

dvonhausen

If I am going to buy an appliance (or something else), why would I go to my computer to view them before going out to Maytag where I could see the real thing. Thats just more work for me. Manufactures and retailers are not going to invest the time and expense to build components in SU unless they feel it will convert prospects into sales.

If I view 3D sketchup components and have a list of retailers who sell the component sorted in order of how close they are to me and then push a button selecting the retailer which makes a call over my computer to the retailer so I can ask all my questions about the component without every leaving my home, then there begins to be some added value. I also may want to buy it without going to the store so with a push of a button, the retailer has all the info needed to write up the order saving me time. I also have to believe that what I see on the screen is an accurate representation of what I will be buying. For a washing machine, color may be important to me so I want to see the available colors from each retailer and it must be accurately displayed on my screen so I can judge confidently. For clothes, forget it for atleast 10 years. There also has to be a critical mass so I get a large selection and I don't feel that I am missing out on a bargain some place else. Price comparisons will also be a plus. Having components displayed in virtual showrooms that I can customize to reflect my surrounds may be helpful so I can build a room at a time instead of an appliance at a time.

Dave

Al Hart

But if you were a kitchen designer, proposing a custom kitchen for a consumer who was not a SketchUp user, you might use SketchUp to layout the new Kitchen and then find components to place in it.

If you find a great stove on the 3D Warehouse, you can use it. And you might even decide to prefer furniture items which had great components on the warehouse, because you might be more likely to close the design and sale to the client with better graphics and a better rendering.

Manufacturers who think this is a good idea might be willing to spend time to put their components on the 3D Warehouse - or use a program like RpReports which lets them distributes their components only to their dealers and distributors.

Richard

CraigD

Mate I'm sincerely glad you are listening in on this thread and hearing what is said! And sorry I'm going to give you a bit more to read here.

I don't know why but feel I need to give some of my own history to back up my cause?:

I started working with SU when i bought my first computer in the days of version 3 and quickly found it suited my limited tech skills - at that time with the limited user base my output gained some notoriety (spelling bad sorry) and Mike (Mayor) Lucey got me invited on to the beta team. from there I got invited onto the beta team for Artlantis R and Studio. And since to the Maxwell Beta team due to my contribution to learning and skills gained in rendering!

I mention all this because although I think I have well recognised skills in SU I can't get anythinh out of any other modeller simply because I'm techno DUMB!!!!!!! Heck I bought AutoCAD lite then too and can't even draw a line!! So this is to support your argument that SU really is very simple to use!!!!!

All this said I can see some very inherant reasons why some may not find SU the ultimate tool of choice!!! And to agree whole heartedly with Pete why the warehouse for me is a bit of a white elephant - sorry!!!!!

I'll list my reasons so to make them clear and I might even try to get away with some harsh language too!!!!

SKETCHUP:

Poly count poly count poly count! It is obvious to look through the gallery here that rendering from SU to external apps is growing at an expediated rate. With the ease and availability of render apps clients have higher expectations and users are introducing this to their workflows to keep pace. SU's inherant issues of dealing with high poly models and scenes requires users to create work arounds to overcome - workarounds are just the first hint that something is wrong!
Texture mapping! SU limited texturing tools are getting more and more attention as the user base and fields of use increase again the user preference to render output highlights these limitations...
Import Compatability! tons of good content for the 3d industry is available out there free or in collections yet the import capabilities of SU for good 3DS, OBJ etc are a real downfall here, so much clean up or remapping is required to make much of this content usable. Poly crunching external to SU is also often a must due to the before mentioned poly limitations.
Illumination! I know and to some degree support the idea that SU is only aimed at being a modeller not for rendered tours etc but a growing expectation to export to game engines and the like to permit better environment for view shows this to be an underlying issue and possibly one of the main reasons 3d Max maintains much of this market.
Viewing options! I normally aim to do all my scene compliation in SU for obvious reasons though when polycount becomes an issue I'm forced into Maxwell Studio - although component or object placement is hindered somewhat I find the ability to view placement in more than one camera view sometimes an absolute god sent. Something I wish was optional in SU would be the ability to view more than one scene window at a time.

3D WAREHOUSE

Model consistancy! As Pete inferred I see a real issue with the warehouse around consistancy where any search will bring up so many varied quality models and one doesn't know till opening it up.
Lost! probably the same as above but as suggested earlier Good High Poly models are required for good render export and many of the models (may in fact most) are not useable for export to render.
Separation! I feel separartion of the warehouse content would be a worthwhile endeavour! One warehouse level for the weekend hackers and one for good professional level content where the user or their contributions need to have proven levels of quality - possibly even a "Certified User" registry or something akin to that. manufacturer's content to make it to this level may also need to comply! I look at something I downloaded the other day a Whirlpool Cooktop - nothing more than an image plane with nobs - what use is that for anyone! Whirlpool probably paid someone to do that without the knowledge the resulting model would be unusable!

Generally I'm not sure a rating system works - I've seen high rated models on the warehouse that when opened are pretty crooke! I'm not sure who voted and what are the aspects on which people are voting. i look at the voting of threads on the PushPullBar - threads are often voted on based on the image quality or the quality of the design but for me I vote on the quality of the thread content which could be based on the arguments raised and what value therefore the thread had to me!

I think therefore some other way of distinguishing good content from bad is essential - afterall the content on the warehouse continues to grow and as a result more and more any quality content will continue to be lost amongst the hoards of substandard models.

I hope I didn't loose you or sound too harsh!

Regards Richard

twharvey

I'd like to echo/underline much of what Pete and Richard have said. I've often thought that 3DW is a lot weaker than it should be. One thing I think would help would be a system of clasification for models, e.g. geo-located buildings, other buildings, vehicles, guns, etc. etc. I'm not particularly interested in guns, so I could skip it.

I'm also bambuzeled by the Popular Models section. It's a complete mystery what Popular means. Then you can sort any collection by Popularity. I don't know what this is either.

Then there is my on-going frustration with Google's review program. I've had a model clearly marked "Work in progress" that was included in Best of 3D Warehouse. Other models are left for months in Waiting for Review" with no indication of whether they have been rejected or even looked at. If they have been rejected for inclusion in GE, Witing should change to "Rejected". It would be helpful to know why as well, but maybe that would take too much manpower on Google's part.

Tom