Why don't more people use SketchUp to place 3D components?

Al Hart

First, I think asking this question is like "preaching to the choir". Anyone using this Forum is already using SketchUp.

SketchUp was originally designed to create 3D shapes, buildings etc. and I think that most people use if for that.

However, with the addition of the 3D Warehouse, I expected that more people would start using SketchUp as a good, free way to lay our components in a spatial area - such as a kitchen, warehouse, or garage to create 3D scenes. These people would not need to know much about the "power" of SketchUp - push/pull, follow me, etc. But could do a pretty good job of creating 3D scenes using existing components with little or no training, and using a very good, free, piece of software.

However, I see very few people posting questions on any of the 3 Forums which indicate that they are trying to place 3D components and having problems. (For instance, it is somewhat hard for a new user to rotate a component, harder to scale it to a desired size, and much harder to figure out how to mirror it.)

What do you think?

Why don't more people use SketchUp to place 3D components?
(People who don't use it to create 3D shapes?)

remus

i suppose its got a lot to do with the way google 'sell' it. i mean its marketed more as a tool for easy design rather than as a planning application. i would have thought that because of this people tend to get into it with a view to designing things, so by the time they work out that it's good for loads of other things they've already got a more than adequate knowledge of basic concepts like moving and rotating components.

Anssi

I think there are many possible reasons:

for people not thinking in 3D. it is not so terribly easy
if your needs are "one-off", the time to learn it is still quite long
many kitchen manufacturers and the like have their own design "workshops", many of them web-based
many kitchen manufacturers and the lika have a "free" design service
components are not so readily available, especially of the whole product ranges of leading manufacturers.
getting components may require the mastery of conversion applications, file formats and scaling.
SU has no simple and reliable 2D interface...

Anssi

CraigD

@anssi said:

I think there are many possible reasons:

components are not so readily available, especially of the whole product ranges of leading manufacturers.

getting components may require the mastery of conversion applications, file formats and scaling.

Anssi

Hi Anssi, to counter these points, view these component collections on 3D Warehouse:

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

(sketchup.google.com)

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

(sketchup.google.com)

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

(sketchup.google.com)

All you need to do is click the Download for SketchUp 6 or SketchUp 5 button, there is no conversion necessary...

What would make this easier or more user friendly?

- CraigD

a4chitect

hi craig, thanks for bringing up this topic. I had to rethink my opinion about the warehouse, and I came to the conclusion that the main reason for me not using it, is that the preview images are often not very appealing. I know that you've done a lot to improve the site design and graphics, but the site itself is no longer the problem.

I would like to have a possibility to select a visual style for the warehouse model preview (like in sketchup) [for example to evaluate the pure geometry of the model unobstructed by textures]
And/Or show the preview in a higher res. or in a zoomable preview window
Separate user generated content from the official manufaturer's stuff - now I don't know if this is good or not, but seeing models of poor quality in the search results often makes a bad impression

EDIT: i know that generating different previews for the models would mean a lot of server-side action but maybe you could devise a format to stream the data to the user and have the sketchup engine make the preview? or just stream the .skp's? is this post all bullshit ?!
EDIT2: sorry craig and al, now I realized that it was al who originally brought this up

a4chitect

another thing is that I hate to mix components of different accuracy next to each other - like when designing a kitchen and using a very detailed sink and a rough sketch of a faucet.
I remember that there was an accuracy chart next to the models (now i can't find it) - so as to overcome this issue but it is always a struggle to really get the difference before you actually download the file

a4chitect

this thread got me thinking even harder and I think that the entire 3d warehouse concept could be evolved even further:

there should be a dynamically generated system of hierarchy (the system could be self-organising by analysing the nesting of collection and perhaps the component names at the same time) for directory browsing
space (root) --> galaxies --> solar system --> .... --> city --> street --> .. --> room -->
by analysing all components(geometry) with similar name and/or parent collection we could extrapolate the average volume of the component to compare against each member of the group to find any odd-postings
components should have a parametric functionality and dynamic links, now I'm thinking about Will Wright's new game Spores where you can create a creature from elements like eyes/hands ... and the system is intelligent enough to make a 'possible' organism. this inspires an idea: each uploaded component should be desintegrated into subgroups/subcomponents - each of those should be downloadable separately and you should be able to replace any of subcomponents by any other component or subcomponent from the warehouse in real-time

3.1 example
you find a great laptop model in the warehouse but don't like the included mouse next to the laptop so you just click on the mouse and the system brings up a gallery of mice and allows you to choose a different one

note: this could work with building - but you should be able not only to change the subcomponent but also change the number of subcomponents - to add more windows to a wall, to change the number of the columns, etc.
note2: all of this could work from within sketchup - is probably possible to code in ruby at the moment

CraigD

Great feedback a4chitect! I will pass this along to the great folks who work on the 3D Warehouse!

Keep the ideas coming!

Cheers,

- CraigD

solo

My opinion, without coming across as a pretentious snob.

I hardly use 3D warehouse mainly because of quality of models, sure there are some great ones, but finding them in the haystack of pitiful ones is too cumbersome.
I suggest a better rating system where a team of 'judges' rate models and allocate a number (highest for best) and then have a search facility where one can filter by ratings.
There should also be a free registration for downloading of those high quality models that have Sketchup ratings, all others that are weekend doodles can be downloaded as it is now.
There needs to be more moderation, as many times I have seen models with copyrighted Form fonts components in them, having a registration system one can then moderate the poster or watch their uploads more carefully to insure it does not happen again.

Tutorials should also be available in a separate section that can be searched, I find .skp tuts work well for newbies that can download a model like the ones Eric Lay does and really understand how it's done.

Having an applet that one can view the 3d model before downloading would be great something like a 3d Pdf view.

Manufacturers models seem to spam searches, could one not bundle them in the search results window rather than have 80 pages of the same component with miniscule variations?

How about a section for optimized models, models that have reflection, light, bumps etc attributed for various render engines. And then ones with joints etc for SU animate and Sketchy physics.

A Big and bold link to this site for those that decide to make SU their life.

just a few thoughts, use them lose them....

bytor

Wow,

Great thread and discussion here. It has kind of split off into 2 directions, and I have a couple comments on each.

First - about the (to date) apparent limited use of Sketchup as a planning tool by placing 3d components. I feel there is a hesitation on the part of general people that are non-professionals because there is no packaged easy "House Planner" / Garden Planner" / "Kitchen Planner" interface or kit of components. Sketchup is capable of filling this niche - but supporting "kits" of components will need to be packaged with quick and easy tutorials for potential hobbyist users to make the leap. What baffles me though is the limited use by professionals - in particular for interior design. I think as more manufacturers make their product available in .skp format this will change.

Second - the Google 3D Warehouse has become such a watered down collection that has bloated to the point where it is often tedious to find something usefull. While as a 3D advocate - I love that kids and hobbyist alike are taking to creating with sketchup. However, when I am searching for say a specific make and model of car for a client - I have to sort through what seems like a million customized / tricked out versions to hopefully find what I need. I realy like the idea of a registered version of the site where content would need to meet a min. level of competence before being included. I have been to other sites that rate content uploaded - some work, and some don't. I think this site is a good example of where participants seem to police themselves. While I don't necessarily have a use for all of the content, I don't thinj I have actually downloaded anything that wasn't of good quality.

Just my thoughts,
Bytor

Rob D

My tuppence worth...
I remember when as a 2D Autocad draughtsman I tried to get to grips with 3D for the first time. It was the concept of 3D space that was the big hurdle. I felt lost in the vast space - seemingly with no anchor. I must say it took me a good while, and a few tutorials to really get to grips with it - and all the while I felt uncomfortable.
It's much easier in SketchUp because of the blue line, but I still think this is the main issue with any 3D CAD. Kitchen design is actually 2D with one or two high level cupboards thrown in. In order for SU to compete, each furniture component should come with a 2d tile representing it in plan. Once a kitchen has been designed in plan using tiles, it's then a simple matter of clicking "reload" to replace the 2d with 3d components. Anyone know of a Ruby that could automate this?

Rob

Al Hart

@rob d said:

My tuppence worth...

In order for SU to compete, each furniture component should come with a 2d tile representing it in plan. Once a kitchen has been designed in plan using tiles, it's then a simple matter of clicking "reload" to replace the 2d with 3d components. Anyone know of a Ruby that could automate this?

Rob

We could create a Ruby file to "Alter" each component before you place it, to put the existing 3D Geometry in a "3D Layer" within the component, and add a new 2D layer, which is a flat hidden line of the geometry. Then the user can turn these two sub-layers on or off for the whole drawing to make it easier to work in 2D mode.

We are already processing the components to allow 2D or 3D display in our component selection dialog.

NOTE: We discussed adding the 2D Layer among our group, but we felt that perhaps switching SketchUp to top view, - non-perspective, and using wire frame or hidden line would do this pretty well already...

Daniel

Al, I think the simple answer to your question is that people do not know how to use the program. I always hear the excuse "I don't have time to learn it" from my compatriots (in and out of the office) when I bring up the subject of SU. As far as not seeing more questions about placing components, it is like you said, preaching to the choir.

CraigD

I have to tell all of you, that your thoughtful insights have been good for us and that we are listening!

Keep it coming! We are trying to make all aspects of Google SketchUp, the 3D Warehouse, and Google Earth better for YOU!!

We appreciate hearing from you!

Thanks guys!

- CraigD

a4chitect

one more thing: maybe it would be useful to integrate 3dwarehouse into sketchup since sketchup is the sole purpose of the warehouse at the moment, and then we could browse the warehouse in a 3d environment native to sketchup and wouldn't have to think about switching between sketchup and the browser, and thinking about where to save the downloaded file (then care to delete the file it it doesn't fit)

~like using the google-earth streaming technology but not for the GE but for sketchup instead

[but I know that the web and google earth is more important to google and therefore don't expect the 3dwarehouse concept to remain off-browser]

Baker518

When I am adding a component to a drawing, I usually try to find it in 3D warehouse. If its not there I take the time to research it, as best as I can, and then draw it to suit my needs. My failure is not adding it to the warehouse once I am satisfied with it. That is something I will try to do more of in the future. I know that doesn't answer the main question, just wanted to see my name up in lights, sorry.

Mike

CraigD

@baker518 said:

That is something I will try to do more of in the future.

(Re: Adding back to the 3D Warehouse) Thanks Mike! It's good content that makes all the difference! We appreciate all of the contributors of quality models!

Cheers,

 - CraigD

Jim

I'm short on time, so this is really a rough draft.

I think it's not so easy to create convincing interiors. It takes more than drawing a box and placing some furniture in it to make it work.

The models for an interior need to be higher quality than the average 3d warehouse model. Unless you use high-segment arcs, you are going to see individual segments simply because the camera needs to be closer for an interior scene.

It's hard to "mesh" SketchUp's sketchy style with photo-realistic textures.

One major deficiency is interior lighting. Lighting is a much larger part of the interior design experience than exterior. On exteriors, there's usually only 1 light source of concern.

Because of these points, your best option is to generate a photo-realistic render. But that brings another level of complexity to the process.

I'm not convinced SketchUp is as easy to use as I keep hearing.

CraigD

@jim said:

I'm short on time, so this is really a rough draft.

I think it's not so easy to create convincing interiors. It takes more than drawing a box and placing some furniture in it to make it work.

The models for an interior need to be higher quality than the average 3d warehouse model. Unless you use high-segment arcs, you are going to see individual segments simply because the camera needs to be closer for an interior scene.

It's hard to "mesh" SketchUp's sketchy style with photo-realistic textures.

One major deficiency is interior lighting. Lighting is a much larger part of the interior design experience than exterior. On exteriors, there's usually only 1 light source of concern.

Because of these points, your best option is to generate a photo-realistic render. But that brings another level of complexity to the process.

I'm not convinced SketchUp is as easy to use as I keep hearing.

Hi Jim, I think you make some good points. My concern with this logic however is that you are mixing "modeling" and "rendering" into the same bucket.

I believe that you won't find an easier, faster modeler out there, with the accuracy of SketchUp. Add to that the ability to very simply add photo realistic textures to your models and I think that you will find SketchUp is an excellent modeling tool for interiors.

Many folks here will agree with you in regards to photo realistic rendering and lighting, which is why there is a Rendering section to this forum. There are multiple options to easily take a SketchUp interior, add lights and shadows, and create a breathtaking interior scene. I've glanced upon many amazing interior renders, created in SketchUp and rendered using one of the favorites discussed in the Rendering sub-forum.

One possible tip I have for those who are creating interiors in SketchUp is to change your camera field of view in the VCB (Value Control Box) box in the lower right corner of the Model window. If you set it to something like 75 degrees, you'll find that it's whole lot easier to work in tight, interior confines.

Another tip is to use Section Planes/Cuts to remove some interior obstructions and give you a better, more clear view of the work area.

I hope this helps, and that you truly spend a little quality time playing with SketchUp. There a tons of people here who are more than happy to help you along your path of discovery, so don't give up on us just yet!

Cheers,

- CraigD

syburn

to study space and make sketchy sketches, then sketch up is fine. it really really needs simple interior lighting though............ and a cheating / magical way to make tranparent/reflective things as one does when one "sketches" with hands