Price Rise
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@mike lucey said:
George, I was not trying to discredit Derei and definitely not being fallacious. As for 'one-upmanship', I'll leave that to you
I was just sticking to facts, figures and on the ground reality as I see it.Fair enough, my misinterpretation then.
@mike lucey said:
I disagree with your suggestion that Trimble should leave the price for SU Pro as is or drop it. It looks to me that they may have possibly inherited the 'free ethos' brought in by Google that, it seems, were not that interested in making money on SketchUp. It looks that Google were more interested in the bigger picture, pushing / developing Google Earth etc.
I wonder what kind of app SU would be and at what price level it would be at if still under @Last Software ownership. I doubt we would have a free version and I'd say they would not have been able to freeze the price for 15 years.
I don't think there's any doubt that Google kept the price fair. I just think that with Sketchup's particular userbase, a lower price would be beneficial - reason being the huge number of Make users (no doubt including many small businesses who should be on pro) can essentially be seen as potential buyers who can't afford pro. I'd be incredibly surprised if the gain in pro users wouldn't make up for the price drop involved.
Of course, this is all conjecture, really, since the decision is ultimately about what is least risky for the shareholders, but it's nice to dream. Personally, I'd like to see a blender-shaped initiative to develop an alternative, but that's wishful thinking at best
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@oceanembers said:
I don't think there's any doubt that Google kept the price fair. I just think that with Sketchup's particular userbase, a lower price would be beneficial - reason being the huge number of Make users (no doubt including many small businesses who should be on pro) can essentially be seen as potential buyers who can't afford pro. I'd be incredibly surprised if the gain in pro users wouldn't make up for the price drop involved.
Of course, this is all conjecture, really, since the decision is ultimately about what is least risky for the shareholders, but it's nice to dream. Personally, I'd like to see a blender-shaped initiative to develop an alternative, but that's wishful thinking at best
Company profits, shareholders dividends etc aside. Trimble SketchUp is trying to service designers of all types with just two products, Make and Pro. The Make users appear to be happy on the price front, free, whereas the Pro users want more 'bang for their buck'.
Its been said before on SketchUcation that whats really needed is a range of Trimble SketchUp products that aims to cater for all needs and budgets. A tall task but nonetheless it could be an objective.
I take your point about there being potential Pro buyers that can't afford Pro. I've been thinking about this and while there is no easy solution there might be ways to satisfy a large portion of this user base.
One solution might be to do what vehicle manufactures and for that matter a broad range of manufactures do. Take a car user needs a vehicle to get him/her to work and back every day, a two or three mile trip. The low cost 'bottom of the range' car would do the job perfectly but the same low cost vehicle would not suit the person that needs to travel hundreds of miles each day.
In TSU's case in might be a matter of having different sized engines or even a 'governor' installed to a single broad spectrum engine. As the user requires more 'power' they pay accordingly. Why would a 3 mile a day commuter require a v8 engined car when a three cylinder .9 litre would do the job needed.
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Lots or reasoning going on here.
All I can say is that my first thought was how would my clients behave if I presented them with a 35% increase (after VAT) in my services? They might accept it... they would probably expect more/better services... they would very likely look around at who else might offer the same service and what they might charge.
For the first time ever... this is how I have felt about SU. I know its not likely I'll find better for the same or less cost, but it has made me consider looking!
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@emerald15 said:
Lots or reasoning going on here.
All I can say is that my first thought was how would my clients behave if I presented them with a 35% increase (after VAT) in my services? They might accept it... they would probably expect more/better services... they would very likely look around at who else might offer the same service and what they might charge.
For the first time ever... this is how I have felt about SU. I know its not likely I'll find better for the same or less cost, but it has made me consider looking!Fair point Fiona.
Many would say that its not great business practice the way Trimble SketchUp are going about increasing price and I imagine this might well sour some Pro users but I honestly feel that SU Pro will still be good value at the new pricing. Its just a pity that better PR wasn't brought into the matter.
I also agree with some above comments that its always good to offer / include more value or even perceived value in the price increased product as we all like to feel we are getting a fair and good deal no matter what we buy.
Mike
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Energy costs have risen more than 110% in Australia in the past 5 years and I'm still keeping cool and feeding my family. Its progress I guess.
For a mere $35 a year I'm not too concerned given the changes I have been able to make to my workflow even in the last 3 months that is making me more productive. I do agree that there has to be a benefit for it but I'm sure many will agree that Trimble has continued to build a super product.
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To morrow, Microsoft will make available windows 10 at no charge for a year, then there may or may not be a fee after that period, Apple offers updates to its software at no fee, Google gives android software for free, google drive storage is free for some space( I forget the amount). There are probably more examples to cite.
Companies have different models to attract customers. Who among us doesn't like to price shop. Personally, If I buy something, I like to pay for it one time, not have it as a recurring event. Cell phone bill is an exception, but I would like to replace that as well.
For me I liked it when Google owned Sketchup. Also recently Google made Google Earth pro -free.,,,, joe
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Joe, all of those companies you list have revenue streams that benefit by giving away software. Advertising is just one source. Maybe if Trimble started selling advertising space in SketchUp and sold information about its users, they could afford to give SketchUp away for free to everyone.
If Google still owned SketchUp we'd still be stuck at version 8.
Despite what some people seem to think, software developers don't work for free, space for them to work in costs money as do the lights. Server space for the Warehouse isn't free either although they don't charge users to store their models there. A very small percentage of SketchUp users wind up paying for development and services that also benefits those who haven't paid a cent.
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Some were disappointed by this sudden price increase and for good reason.
Not because price increased. But because something was asked, without something given back of equal value. In the official statement, Trimble says "We’re continually investing in SketchUp". The problem is that is not done enough yet to justify more money.Let's remember what was the first thing Trimble "improved" in sketchup: - was the logo. And that logo change increased SU performance by like... 0%
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After this, the major improvements were those that were left on Google's table at the time of sale. It was mainly just continuing Google's job. Well, I must admit that without Trimble, things may have gone much slower, as Google wasn't too interested to develop SU. But still, there is not yet something to say that Trimble did a major thing for SU.
We'd better see this major improvements soon, because the price we've seen already. -
Dave R;
I had a feeling you would come to Trimble's defense. Just saying 'there are many ways to run a company and attract customers'. Feel free to pick up my tab anytime....joe
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... also in the news ...
"Trimble announced that SU2016Pro will incorporate Skalp, Condoc Tools, Profile Builder 2, Vertex Tools, Artisan, Vali Architects' entire suite of extensions, 1001 Bit Tools Pro, and a few others (surprise!) as standard offering."
... and then I woke up ...
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official statement http://blog.sketchup.com/sketchupdate/lets-talk-about-price
edit: added and revised some math
So, new people pay 41% extra compared to 2012. People who already have a license continue to be happy using SketchUp paying $120 every year.
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@unknownuser said:
We’re continually investing in SketchUp, so that it improves in step with the other hardware and software you buy.
Interesting... i just tried to load a 1.5M poly OBJ into SU2015... no chance, i stopped it after 45 minutes of no response. And 1.5M is NOTHING today. 3DSmax did it in maybe 5 seconds.
And i remember that the first dual core processors have been introduced in 2005 - i've just build my new machine around an 8-core i7... great, now i can run 8 instances of sketchup simultaneously. -
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I too am not happy with the price increase, without getting something in return. I'm self-employed and when (actually if) I raise prices, my clients always expect more.
I may be off base here, but why not get all the people who use Sketchup Make (free version?) for business to pay something, even if it's a small fee.
I don't think it is fair that I should have to pay (for Pro) and someone else gets to use Make for free to earn a living (or a little extra cash on the side).
Also, in my opinion, Sketchup is getting away from it's original purpose: quick & easy 3d modeling tool to set up perspective views (anyone that's done it by hand knows how much of a time saver SU is). A lot of the extra features, Layout especially, have no value to me.
Perhaps Trimble should explore pricing different Pro versions, or have add-ons for additional features at additional fees?
Just my opinions,
Glenn -
As a 'Make' user and having paid not a penny for what I have I still see a lot of basic items that need to be fixed before sketchup reaches a standard where I would want to pay for it. Here is the rub though, I get it free and honestly accept that this means a lower standard can be upheld by the company. Consider also the quite large improvements made since Trimble climbed on board and it is hard to see where the criticism is so harsh. 64 bit is here and while it is not before time it would NOT be here if google were still paying the wages bill.
I wish that the basic problems were ironed out and the gap between make and pro were wider but if wishes were fishes all I would need would be chips and I would be set up for free meals forever. I will take what I can get on the whole it is more positive than negative.
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@mike amos said:
I get it free and honestly accept that this means a lower standard can be upheld by the company.
You get it free because that was the condition imposed by Google to Trimble, to keep this version free alive. I don't know for how long, though... but FYI, this is not Trimble's good heart, rather this is how the deal was. Thank to Google for that.
@mike amos said:
Consider also the quite large improvements made since Trimble climbed on board and it is hard to see where the criticism is so harsh. 64 bit is here and while it is not before time it would NOT be here if google were still paying the wages bill.
Trimble did the improvements that were on Google's table at the moment of purchase, more or less... I agree that if it were for Google, maybe it had took way longer time to accomplish them. Think about this great improvements that Trimble did because "they considered that have to be done".
My rant is about too little improvements in this time before coming with the price raise. Yes, many things were done... Yeyy... at last. But I won't feel grateful for a delayed job that was eventually done. I will just say "thank you, was about time. Let's see how it goes from this point on".
As a MAKE user, SU is decent, so no complains about (especially because of the magic word FREE - still their EULA states that is forbidden to use Make for commercial purposes - aka for job).
But if you turn your eye to the Pro version and check the pro tools that come with (starting with different file importers and ending with boolean tools and Layout) you will notice that all of them behave rather poor, too much below the decent standard of any tool you are supposed to pay for. Layout 3, right now is like a improved Beta, like a Pre-Release Candidate.Think on this: you use PRO for the reason to do the work faster and better and you end up doing it SLOWER and with a lot of nerves (and sometimes worse because of the bugs) ... AND YOU PAID FOR THAT ! Your clients won't accept the excuses "you see, I am using SU Pro, we shouldn't be that harsh". And also Trimble won't compensate you for this either, even if you PAID for their Pro version. So, first, all this tools should become DECENT, like at least as good as the competition average tools available.
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If you have a competing application for $500 that does professional work in the modelling and presentation / construction drawing field, I want to investigate it. Are you talking about Bonsai?
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@pbacot said:
If you have a competing application for $500 that does professional work in the modelling and presentation / construction drawing field, I want to investigate it. Are you talking about Bonsai?
Blender is free, granted the ease of use isn't anywhere near SketchUp, however it is far more advanced, and you have $500 in your pocket to spend as you wish, be it add-ons or whatever.
Layout is a separate program from SketchUp, they come bundled in the Pro version of SketchUp (and it is not available otherwise), integration isn't as tight / good as it could be. In essence, you are exporting / referencing your SketchUp model in another program. By my logic I could do the same with other softwares and modeling programs in combination.
The problem here is I have too little time to learn other software at this time, I've also spent a lot on plugins / extensions, etc. for SketchUp. So I'll probably just keep on keeping on with SketchUp until: a) I get really fed up, or b) discover a similarly simple workflow that works better for me, or c) get a time and money windfall that will afford me opportunity to move to other software.
Admittedly I'm a bit of a SketchUp junky, hopefully they can keep my interest going...
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I consider LayOut a part of the pro package, most of what you pay the $500 for. Blender has dimensions, templates, scrapbooks and all that you use for construction drawings? I am so not ready to try Blender after all the pro modelers here tell me it is so hard. But if it has a path to creating construction drawings comparable to what people do in SketchUp (with or without LayOut) that'd be interesting as well.
After using CAD for so many years where you output from the same application you draw in, SU to LO does seem to add complexity in the process. But I have become used to the idea of a discrete model, which can then be used in CD's or can be rendered, each through specialized software. Still I find LO to be lacking in ease of use (actually lack of tools and features), and right now I mostly use it as a step to output SU to CAD. So I am doing sort of what you say, except the CAD software costs a LOT more.
I don't understand why Blender is free. I don't see how I can expect people to work and improve anything for my use if they don't get paid. To me SketchUP is very cheap compared to what I have paid for CAD (and that's nothing compared to what AutoDesk users pay). Still I understand the concern: price hike vs. lack of progress.
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$700... A bit behind the times, but I just noticed this...
What a kick in the nuts...Well, I guess I'm no longer saving up to purchase Pro... The extra $200 just put it out of my Hobby price range.
A nice thing to have done would have been to have made different packages available...
A full suite for $700 and separate SU, Layout and Style builder packages... Invidually sold they could equal more than the bundled $700 cost, but allow those starting off, semi-professionals and honest hobbyists to afford what they need.Bean counters and marketing professional would say that's not maximizing profit... But it probably would bring in more small users who have absolutely no need for layout or style builder.
The music industry learned that making stuff affordable attracts customers... Big software companies disagree.
There are two groups in their eyes... Hobbyists/students who get PLEs and limited feature free versions, and Professional who pay top dollar (to be honest, I'm actually surprised they did not raise it to an even 1k)...
There is no semi-professional on a budget or small businesses... Anyone starting out or struggling to get by can suck it.But whats done is done and I'm just shouting at the wind...
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