Sketchup 64 bit?
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I'm not interested in Johns opinion of me -- I already have formed my opinion of him, and therefore his thoughts on me are really irrelevant -- meaning I think he should be fired (based on past performance).
For that matter I decided some time ago that you were also irrelevant as well, so it's no surprise you find me rude -- I find you to be a SketchUp shilling twit... and I'm not terribly good at hiding that.
Forget free version "customers", they don't even count and you know it -- this isn't Google land any more and if Trimble doesn't find a way to convert those "customers" to paying users they will simply cease supporting them... at which point the free version users will simply move onto the next free package.
As for Pro version users, I've rarely come across one who isn't using some form of rendering engine or other 3rd party functionality add-on... what is the point of even having Pro if all you need is a easy/fast "sketcher"? (if you say Layout I'll laugh my head off -- hardly anybody says Layout is deciding factor in going Pro for them... as cool as it is, it is simply too immature at this point)
Best,
Jason. -
I don't know -- I think form Z 7 is a pretty decently comparative product (although far more advanced), maybe once they release a new Bonzai3d it might be a better direct comparison.
But I'm not really interested in drawing comparisons here, other than to say that should I choose to move on from SketchUp Pro (very likely) there are options that I already have done work with and am pleased to give my money to instead.
I use SketchUp Pro because of Maxwell -- not the other way around, so my first issue will always be what can SketchUp do to improve my workflow with Maxwell. As far as I'm concerned Maxwell is a stellar product that puts SketchUp development to shame with a similar sized team.
But that isn't hard, practically every software I've used has put SketchUp development to shame over the last 5 years.
Best,
Jason. -
Sorry Jason i deleted my post i thought i'd stay out of it.
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@jason_maranto said:
But I'm not really interested in drawing comparisons here, other than to say that should I choose to move on from SketchUp Pro (very likely)
dunno.. i think that's your best course of action.. make the decision final & quit hoping for SU to do what you want..
your hair will thank you.
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@unknownuser said:
make the decision final & quit hoping for SU to do what you want..
your hair will thank you.
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@unknownuser said:
@jason_maranto said:
But I'm not really interested in drawing comparisons here, other than to say that should I choose to move on from SketchUp Pro (very likely)
dunno.. i think that's your best course of action.. make the decision final & quit hoping for SU to do what you want..
your hair will thank you.
I lost most of it long ago, but I seem to be holding steady these days...Yeah, you are probably right, I had actually already made the decision to go that way once I got wind of the terms of SketchUp's sale... but I was persuaded to wait. I've been very disappointed in SketchUp for a while, and I can't say that I think things will get better (for my concerns)... I suspect many other users feel much the same -- and this is borne out by most of the people I admire here moving partially or fully to other packages.
Now, if I was a BIM oriented user I might be excited by the possibilities, but that means absolutely nothing to me.
Best,
Jason. -
Wow, this got pretty passionate. Jason, I thought you were in the architecture end of business, but I just noticed the illustration/cartoons aspect. What are you specifically looking for? For me, the BIM use is already there and just needs the ability to quantify graphically. Is it speed? We all want that as well.
I also think you are not giving enough credit for what John has done with SU to date. Not that I have any right to direct your opinion, but there are many aspects of where we are now that John has certainly had a major influence.
The squeaky wheel gets the oil, but being more constructive about it will go miles.
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@unknownuser said:
The squeaky wheel gets the oil, but being more constructive about it will go miles.
one would hope.. i think there have been some very constructive conversations over the years (involving the devs) with regards to sketchup development.. (personally- material browser, dynamic component improvements, printing, alphabetizing menus, plugin organization, toolbar issues, thumbnails)
i mean, things that will benefit ALL users.. so i'd have these discussions (either here, at the google forums, or via email).. and i mean constructive engagements- not 'give me this!'..
then the next SU version comes out and ... nothing.. zip nada zilch..
ok.. so that's understandable or whatever.. so i think at first..
but, su isn't the only app i use and i do engage in conversations (trying to be clear about reasoning, showing examples, making vids for them etc) with other developers and i'll often (and i mean often) see those changes implemented either immediately through a beta release or in the next official release..we are in fact the users.. and we have many many stupid ideas for the apps.. but sometimes, we have good ideas and can get these ideas through to the devs in a reasonable and constructive manner.. and the devs will understand the need and agree it should be implemented.. and they actually do it..
this process simply does not exist with sketchup.. i'm sorry but it doesn't.. and to make matters worse, they try to make it seems like it does via Q&As or polls for most desired features etc.. but none of that stuff ever happens (and if it does.. meaning a user makes a direct request which is then implemented.. it is very very rare)
[edit] and in jason's case ..(i'm not defending his outbursts or whatever.. just understanding his position is all).. it's not like he just comes in here guns ablazing.. he started off calmly and constructive enough a few years ago.. and it's getting him nowhere.. i've been there.. i get it.
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Jeff hit the nail on the head -- I participated fully in good faith.
Bacus presided over the most dismal development period of any (ostensibly worked on) software I have seen -- such poor performance would be grounds for termination at any job.
As for what I want, I put in my votes like everybody else -- sure I'd be slightly disgruntled if my wants are ignored while everyone else gets what they want... but the truth is hardly anybody got anything they wanted.
I'm not anti-SketchUp at all. Wait until 2013 (ugh) is released and see what kind a zoo this place turns into... the chaos upon release of SketchUp 8 was just a small sample of what you can expect with the next (and I believe last) wave of disappointing results.
The mere fact that Sketchup 9, which should have been ready for release, was scrapped should tell you that they had nothing worthwhile to release even 2 years after the SketchUp 8 fiasco. After 4 years of essentially doing nothing you really believe they are competent to get the job done at this time? And based on what, the last worthwhile update was SketchUp 7 -- so you have to go back many years to see anything good Bacus has done.
All I've seen are excuses and rationalizations as to why things aren't getting done -- I want results... plain and simple.
Best,
Jason. -
@unknownuser said:
this process simply does not exist with sketchup.. i'm sorry but it doesn't.. and to make matters worse, they try to make it seems like it does via Q&As or polls for most desired features etc.. but none of that stuff ever happens (and if it does.. meaning a user makes a direct request which is then implemented.. it is very very rare)
I remember these polls, I even participated, but the problem with the polls is they were open to everyone, and not trying to sound like a dick, but the guy that just downloaded SU to build a gun for use in second life is not worthy of cancelling out my vote, a professional (as in I earn my living with SU and not that I'm a SU wizard) It should have been focused at the pro users or done on these forums, people that use it everyday and have a genuine invested interest in the future of the product.
But that was a time when Google really did not need the revenue generated by pro licenses as Google Earth was the focus, where free users could be duped into creating content.
Lets give Trimble a chance, wait until SU2013.
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I agree -- and at the time I even suggested that they have separate polls for Pro users and free version users. I stepped on some free version users toes at that time, but I believed strongly that if you pay your money, you have more of a say than the guy who just downloaded it...
However the reality is none of it matters anyway -- free or Pro we all get ignored equally.
Best,
Jason. -
@solo said:
but the guy that just downloaded SU to build a gun for use in second life is not worthy of cancelling out my vote
lol.. yeah.. that guy..
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@solo said:
Lets give Trimble a chance, wait until SU2013.
seriously, for me.. sketchup could stay exactly how it is right this very moment and i'd be ok with it..
but.. it has to take the back seat now.. it used to be the go-to for me but i've grown designwise over the past decade and the app hasn't grown with me..
i don't foresee myself not using sketchup in the future nor do i see myself not continuing as a pro user..
i just don't love* the app anymore.. that's all.(*or however i should try to describe my feelings about a tool.. +insert_awesome_joke_here+
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@jbacus said:
improvements for developers: Rendering engines (mainly, V-Ray; to a lesser degree, Maxwell) should be able to execute 'inside SketchUp' in a 64-bit environment, rather than running their rendering in their own thread.
3rd-party rendering engines are free to execute operations in 64-bit environments if they design their architecture to do so. Many of them have done so today— there are significant architectural advantages to doing so. Some renderers, like Maxwell, market the ability to execute in a 64-bit environment (as well as the ability to do things like distributed network rendering) as an advanced feature that justifies purchasing their "Maxwell Studio" rendering suite.
Well... I am not a programming guru, but I have understood that there are actually some benefits if a renderer can operate in context of SU, if SU stays in 32 bit - we can only load 32 bit dll and so. If SU where 64 bit, communication between SU and 64 bit renderer would be (much) simplified - not need for RPC or some other kludge.
I sure can understand thinking 32/64 bit with "SU" goggles... then 64 bit may not sound tempting; a lot of work for 64 bit conversion, no speed benefit,...
But maybe think it as a investment for the future and imago development - a positive mojo. -
@jason_maranto said:
the chaos upon release of SketchUp 8
@jason_maranto said:
the SketchUp 8 fiasco
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That didn't happen for the initial SketchUp 8 release. That was post-Google.
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It was the only thing I could think of.
Maybe the whole 'lack of features' updated between 7 and 8. But like you I struggle to remember the whole fiasco.
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Maybe my memory is too clear on this -- but these forums exploded with complaints for weeks after the release. This lengthy expression of intense dissatisfaction was the thing that sparked the polls PR move.
Now to be fair most of the complainers are no longer here -- either they moved on to other packages or simply went back into lurk mode.
Actually I'm a bit surprised at so much apathy from the user base here -- I can only read this as "giving up"... which does not bode well for the future of the software.
Whatever the reality, Jeff is right, I made my decision before and nothing that has happened in the interim has altered my perception of the situation. I have no faith in Bacus to deliver a useful update, and my time and attention are limited, so I'm out.
Best,
Jason. -
@Jason....
I know alot of people may not agree with your method of delivery. But I do think that someone so passionate about progress does deserve a platform to shout their opinions.
Claiming that users here are apathetic to your concerns or SU's development is not really a fact you can claim. Not on my part anyway.
SU is a tool. No different than a hammer. I don't try and use a hammer to tighten a nut. I see no point in asking the hammer manufacturer to add a spanner at one end because I'm a lazy and won't go get another tool.
@unknownuser said:
SketchUp is a simple, 3D conceptual design modeler used by architects, engineers and anyone who wants to play with ideas in 3D.
That's what it is. Simple. Play. Concept. Ideas.
Do I want it to be like Blender? Yes. Do I want all sorts of doodads and doo-hickeys that suit my end goal? Yes. Do I want speed improvements with next-gen tech running it? Yes.
Will it happen? No.
Does that mean I gave up? No. It means I'm fully aware of what it can do.
I know you are adamant about the whole 64bit jazz and blah blah blah. Is that really gonna satisfy your needs? You still have mapping issues, tris galore etc...
Trying to drag the SU team through the mud because you have pushed past their apps usefulness isn't conducive to your development as an artist.
Learn something YOU can't do everyday....that's development.
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