Vegetation in sketchup

[ccs1987]

Good morning sirs. I would like to ask how to render perfect vegetation using sketchup vray with a very nice model.
i found that 3D warehouse is not having nice textured plants or curbs vegs.
for example birch trees that are in 3D max are coming out with very realistic effects.
I am looking into thea render but now i am using vray so hence i am still searching on a way to find good plants, and good textures.
The reason is when i import 3Dmax file into sketchup, the high poly really make the computer go super slow

[Rich O Brien]

Thea has a Tree library for licenced users and means you can place the trees in Thea Studio so it doesn't impact SU. But there's also a proxy system in the pipeline.

Not sure about Vray as I never adopted to it.

Indigo has a cool dummy system that allows a Line to represent a tree.

ShaderLight also has a proxy system.

[ccs1987]

I just tried O'Brien yesterday and the sandwich is nice.
I am now using Vray so i am seeking around on ideas how to make realistic trees etc because thea and other rendering software provide nice trees but vray dont

[Roger]

Hola pana, esto es tan facil por un Caraqueno de 25 anos de edad.? Conoces el 3D Warehouse? Hay mucho arboles alla pero no tiene el araguaney.

-- El Duque de Ahwatukee a su orden

[andybot]

For still images, the simplest and most effective method for me is to use 2D cutout trees, plus maybe one or two 3D trees (like from max or other high-poly source) when the tree is more prominent or I need it for shadows.

[davidh]

I think Andybot hit the nail on the head.When I first started rendering in vray,most of my vegetation was done in post i.e photoshop with a sketchup tree behind the camera and in line with the light throwing a shadow,particularly if the tree is close to the building as it takes quite a bit of work to make it look like the shadow is falling on the building if it is done in post.

But the key to adding any entourage such as planting,people or cars is to ensure that the light on the entourage matches the light on the render,otherwise it looks like you have multiple light sources, and while this can work in a more stylised image,it will be very obvious in an image that is meant to be photorealistic.

I currently use Thea but the lessons I have learned over the years in using a more limited package(I mean that in the sense that Thea can create vegetation/entourage very quickly due to its "instancing" tool)is that bad lighting will always make a good model look bad.

Basically if you have a render with high sunlight,dont use an entourage/plant image from an overcast sky and visa versa.

[valerostudio]

2D clip maps of trees are quick and easy but sometimes you want 3D trees and plants. For me, the best models are on FormFonts. Also, you can get XFrog trees and import them, but it takes some doing to get the texturing setup. There are postings on SketchUcation that talk about this. Also, XFrog trees import from 3DS or OBJ and make for HUGE files. I use them sparingly for foreground stuff and then use the low poly models from FF for mid ground and then add background in Photoshop.

Here is a tutorial on using them in SketchUp
http://xfrog.com/new-tutorial-for-sketchup/

[ccs1987]

so mostly still use back the trees found from 3D warehouse either 3D tree or 2D tree?
just make the png transparency when the leaf are looking like papers?
guys, how about like plants at the roadside. Photoshop still the best idea?

[Roger]

Two D trees are great for the far and mid background. When you get to the near foreground where the subtle effects such as play of ambient light on your leaves and bark become noticeable you will have to decide the trade offs for yourself. The question becomes what works best for your work flow and style versus how good and how expensive/available are you vegetation models. You may find one answer does not fit all situations and move from one technique to the other based on circumstances. Remember most viewers will not care how you did your work, they only care about the visual appeal of the finished piece.

[valerostudio]

Well said Roger. I think it is all about style and workflow. If you want very realistic than you will need realistic high detail models and you will also need to add a refraction layer to your leaves and displacement to your bark. Render times will be very high but the results will be nice. If you are pressed for time and system resources, then use Photoshop and use to well. Make sure the lighting on the plant matches the lighting of your scene. People might not pick up on exactly what is wrong but the render will not feel right.

[ccs1987]

Thanks guys for the kind sharing of experience, here i have a picture from thea forum website.
Let's say for example this is my ideal vegetation that i wish i can achieve.
If i am just using sketchup and warehouse library for trees, and also vray for render. will i be acheiving result of the trees as in the details in the picture that i had just uploaded at attachment. Because recently i had been looking for plugins in sketchup for this vegetation thing. I had came across ITOOSOFT.com forest pack, Xfrog plants, but unfortunately i am not using 3Dmax at all.
Is it possible to purchase the ITooForest and Xfrog and open it with 3Dmax then export it in 3dx file extension then i import it again into sketchup, is it advisable

[davidh]

Unfortuanatly it is my experience that the file size will be huge.I think that Thea is working on a proxy method for hi res 3d planting in sketchup which will help significantly but as it stands,detailed plants from companies such as xfrog etc are just too large in file size for sketchup,no matter how you go about importing them.

[valerostudio]

If you want 3D vegetation that renders like that, you will need MAX. Those trees and plants (if they are all indeed 3d models and not post work) would be very high poly and SU would not be able to support that kind of geometry. Another option is Vue Studio which can import SU models with the right plug-in. Vue can handle massive amount trees and has a nice engine for Ecosystems and terrain. Unfortunately, the render engine in Vue is a bit slow and not as high quality as VRay. If your workflow is to stay inside SU and use VRay to render, then your best bet is a few Xfrog trees and use the Component Sprayer and Fur plugis. You have to make sure your materials are setup correctly to achieve the most realism though. This involves using a refraction layer on your leaves and displacement maps on your bark at close range. Im sure there are tutorials on YouTube regarding this setup.

[valerostudio]

[ccs1987]

so does it mean that currently at the market, Thea render produces nicest vegetations as there's instancing n free tree and plants if purchased?

[Hieru]

At the moment there is only one package of trees (Birch) that's free for liscenced Thea users. However Xfrog have 130 free sample trees/plants and CGAxis tree packs are reasonably priced (they also have some free samples - as do Evermotion). There's also TreeSketch (free) if you have an ipad.

If you find yourself regularly in need of custom trees or clients often have very specific requirements, then Xfrog's standalone tree software might be a good option. There's some other alternatives, but I can't think of them right now.

When the new SU plugin for Thea is released, you will be able to use these high poly trees inside SU via proxies. I'm pretty sure that Maxwell, Indigo and Twilight already do this (I think) and there may be others.

[ccs1987]

Thanks guys. I guess thea is the only place i will go for.

[andybot]

Well, if you wait a little while (or a long while, still not entirely sure ) The next version of vray for sketchup is supposed to have proxy support. I am very curious to see what sorts of new goodies will be implemented next.

Andy