A new home for SketchUp
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This has been an interesting thread to follow.
I really would like to see SketchUp allowed to continue down the path it is on, after all that is why it is so unique amongst its peers.
So I can see the point of Trimble's integration into it's other software, but let the base engine develop as it has.
After all without the contribution of the Ruby masters, and the community in general sharing the methods of how they push the boundaries of this software, It would only be a quaint toy.
Why fix what ain't broken. -
I don't see any justification for all the negativity, myself. Those of us that have actually met and talked with the Dev team...there are quite a few of us; and in some cases that relationship goes back years...can attest to the fact that you're unlikely to meet a more dedicated bunch with a greater enthusiasm for their software or in their relationship with their user base.
They haven't even concluded the deal yet, much less are in any position to release further information on how that relationship will move forward. To all the doomsayers, it might be worth recalling what John wrote on the SU blog:-
'For the folks worried that we'll stop offering SketchUp for free, "The free version of SketchUp is an important part of our world as well, and that isn’t changing in the least."
For the folks worried that we'll only pay attention to the AEC industry, "If you’re one of the many, many people who use SketchUp for something else—from education to woodworking, geo-modeling to movie-making—rest assured that there will be a SketchUp for you, too."
If you're just worried because you don't like Trimble's website, don't judge a book by its cover.'
Are you accusing him of telling outright lies?So I'm hoping that the core program remains essentially the same and continues to do what it does...but better.
I'm hoping that its usability and popularity can be increased much further by the continued efforts of 3rd party developers like those on this forum...and that Trimble finds a way of facilitating and coordinating that development by working more closely with those 3rd parties to produce a more capable and even more diversified product than it is already....oh! and while you are gluing Trimble together, do you think you could spare a bit for the toolbars.
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@solo said:
No point in speculation or fear, lets wait and see.
wise words, pete.
what is the point of agonizing about something over which we have no control whatsoever?
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Alan.
you're obviously not reading those statements via google.translate.almost_unbiased_english.com
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When I first adopted SketchUp (v1), I was delighted with my new found ability to explain my building ideas to clients in understandable 3D. I never had any difficulty getting the design ideas across to co-workers with the use of 2D plans and some quick sections. Their brains automatically formed the 3D pictures.
My design work-flow was, get the idea, do some very rough freehand (mostly plan) sketches, then move on to tracing paper over a 300 x 300 mm grid and draft up (again freehand) the plans, sections, and elevations. For presentation of house design, I used to do quick and dirty single point perspectives which showed front gardens etc and the front elevation with some perspective 'cheats'.
Ideally for me, it would have been better if SketchUp had a SIMPLE 2D drawing front end. I know with the various plugins, this is possible but its not quite a simple process as I was used to with the tracing paper over my 300 x 300mm grid. Layout, is just that, a good layout process.
So my question is, could there be a companion front end to SketchUp that would allow the designer to 'draft up' the initial floor plans quickly and accurately? Maybe I should just start talking to the 3rd party developers that have produced all the great 2D drafting plugins and see what could be combined to create what I have in mind.
I think the ingredients are there, it maybe just a matter of mixing them into something to get what I want
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I agree. Why be negative? It's all very interesting anyway. I keep thinking is v9 coming when the dust settles?
As for corporations, there is nothing really to expect but that they will act as corporations. The closest I got to that was working at a small firm that had corporate clients. The people with whom I would work were wonderful, fun, and professional; but the corporate bosses (and mind-set that everyone kow-towed to) were, as usual, a different matter. I never want to be that close to the corporate work world again. It stinks. I find it silly that people go to work at such a place then whine on the internet.
Doesn't mean SU will go one way or the other.
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@unknownuser said:
Alan.
you're obviously not reading those statements via google.translate.almost_unbiased_english.com
Oh yes I am, Jeff. I just left the Add Unwarranted Cynicism box unchecked.
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@solo said:
... lets wait and see.
Agreed. Until the next release of SU appears there's no way to know Trimble's intentions, anything they say now is public relations-speak, it may or may not be translated into actions.
When @Last sold SU to Google there was a great deal of speculation amongst the users, the optimists were excited about the huge resources Google would bring to bear on future development, others worried about what would happen to the development team and still others feared that Google would 'devalue' SU by releasing a free version as they had done with another app (I forget what it was).
If I remember correctly (and it's quite possible that I don't), @Last themselves stated at the time that the buyout would boost development, but in reality SU has largely stagnated in Google hands. At the time Google stated that the buyout would not result in any @Last people being 'let go', but behind the scenes some had already been asked to clear out their desks. And Google stated that they had no intention of releasing a free version, only to announce the free version soon after.
I'm glad Google won't be stifling SU's potential any longer, what Trimble will do with it remains to be seen but I'm not holding my breath. I love SU dearly and it's an important part of my workflow, but it became clear to me years ago that I couldn't pin any hopes on SU evolving much beyond what it was then (V5/6) or growing in the direction I needed to go. I looked to Luxology's modo as the next rising star and I'm happy to say that 5 versions later its still evolving faster than I can learn its new tricks.
I hope one day I'll be as excited about a new release of SketchUp.
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I think much of the expectable, near (?) future features with a new version have been cooking in the oven for a while already (like LayOut had already been behind the scenes in @Last days and was only released with SU 6) so what I would really trust is the second (or third) release from now to really see where SU is going.
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@mike lucey said:
So my question is, could there be a companion front end to SketchUp that would allow the designer to 'draft up' the initial floor plans quickly and accurately? Maybe I should just start talking to the 3rd party developers that have produced all the great 2D drafting plugins and see what could be combined to create what I have in mind.
What's wrong with ACAD LT? True, I've been using ACAD since R12, so I know my way around it, but I have yet to come across as facile and quick 2d drafting tool as ACAD. My workflow for new design is quick mockup of plans and elevations in ACAD, then import to SU as a template to begin 3D massing.
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@alan fraser said:
@unknownuser said:
Alan.
you're obviously not reading those statements via google.translate.almost_unbiased_english.com
Oh yes I am, Jeff. I just left the Add Unwarranted Cynicism box unchecked.
... yeah - I do admit the translation could be a bit over the top, but its easier to spot highlighted orange than small grey print.
Im not the one applying the cynicism, its all there already, just not in plain english.
But believe you me - Before it was SKETCHUP supported by Google - now it is TRIMBLE supported by Sketchup.Anyway you are ofcause right - There is no need for negativity and fear. Sorry wasen't my intention - Im just a engaged user trying to figure out what they are doing to my beloved SketchUp. I any case, "3D for everyone" genie is out of the bottle, and if Trimble makes a mess of it - then it will just be somewhere else.
So from now on I will be positive and just get on with the job - but its a shame and just not right .. at all - Ups sorry - from NOW on. -
@andybot said:
@mike lucey said:
So my question is, could there be a companion front end to SketchUp that would allow the designer to 'draft up' the initial floor plans quickly and accurately? Maybe I should just start talking to the 3rd party developers that have produced all the great 2D drafting plugins and see what could be combined to create what I have in mind.
What's wrong with ACAD LT? True, I've been using ACAD since R12, so I know my way around it, but I have yet to come across as facile and quick 2d drafting tool as ACAD. My workflow for new design is quick mockup of plans and elevations in ACAD, then import to SU as a template to begin 3D massing.
Thanks Andy for commenting on my suggestion. I have tried many many 2D apps. In the office it was / had to be Acad.
I suppose what I'm really after is to have a (front end 2D) version of SketchUp with its simple straightforward looking GUI but strictly for 2D work and then when finished that part of the workflow, click a button and the GUI / program changes to SketchUp.
Back in my Win using days
I got to grips with a simple 2D app, forgot the name, that I really liked using for simple 2D concept sketches. The main feature was that the user could 'freehand' circles, squares, rectangles etc and the app would turn them into ridged geometry if required. I really don't think we have moved that far from the desire to just 'draw in the sand'.I suppose SketchUp could well be compared to making sand castles, an enjoyable pastime that appeals to both kids and adults alike, also I've seen some really impressive sand sculptures.
EDIT: That 2D app I could not think of while writing was SmartSketch
, an Intergraph product,
http://www.intergraph.com/products/ppm/smartsketch/comparing_smartsketch_autoCAD.aspx
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@thomthom said:
@rich o brien said:
I want a gizmo.
Or like this?
[attachment=1:2hvmw8f0]<!-- ia1 -->Gizmo.png<!-- ia1 -->[/attachment:2hvmw8f0]
[attachment=0:2hvmw8f0]<!-- ia0 -->GizmoRotate.png<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:2hvmw8f0]You're like a freakin mad scientist mate! Little lab in the back playing head down with your chemestry set!
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Just don't feed Rich after midnight.
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I don't know that the next update will be so representative of what Trimble wants to do with SU as John and the SU Staff have most certainly been working on something for all this time... While Trimble might hold that back a while now so as to roll it into one with their name change and such. I don't know that they could implement much quickly. I think first off you're going to have Trimble going through the cookie jar they just got ahold of and trying to have a meeting of the minds between their two staffs to see where they might be able to go... I'm sure each side already has ideas. I have faith that mankind has an inherent desire to create and move forward... I'm sure these people are no different. would love to hear some hints... hint hint. ahem.
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@krisidious said:
would love to hear some hints... hint hint. ahem.
i thought this post contained a hint at the end..
http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?p=400617#p400617but maybe i'm stoopid
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@mike lucey said:
EDIT: That 2D app I could not think of while writing was SmartSketch
, an Intergraph product,
http://www.intergraph.com/products/ppm/smartsketch/comparing_smartsketch_autoCAD.aspxOne of the first free 2D apps released by a large company, that I remember, was Ashlar DrawingBoard. It was also the first that I remember having inferencing. (This was in Windows 2.x I think, when all the controls/buttons were still 2D, but still ran under Windows 3.x.)
Mike.. why can you not switch to TopView and draw the floorplan within SU ??
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@mike lucey said:
I've put a proposition up! Should we be voicing opinions on how WE would like to see SU possibly 'morphing'. Any thoughts on this?
I would like to see a 64bit version of SketchUp with multi-thread support with a C++ SDK that will allow 3rd party developers to modify every smallest detail in a model & application (access to sections, watermarks, dimensions, PhotoMatch, control over OpenGL viewport,...), native "ThickFaces" (there were rumours about them, if I remember well, before Google took-over).
If this will be achieved, SketchUp will be available in multiple flavours, which will suit certain user requirements.
@mike lucey said:
So my question is, could there be a companion front end to SketchUp that would allow the designer to 'draft up' the initial floor plans quickly and accurately? Maybe I should just start talking to the 3rd party developers that have produced all the great 2D drafting plugins and see what could be combined to create what I have in mind.
I remember well our talk on this ... few years ago. It is right time to talk not only do devs, but also to SketchUp team. I really would like to see the Team openly and unrestrictedly participating in this forum.
If they will give us, developers, the tools required and their support, SketchUp will flourish.
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@unknownuser said:
I really would like to see the Team openly and unrestrictedly participating in this forum.
+1 !!
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That's constructive indeed. John B tells me he is reading all these comments and trying to keep up with what is being said.I imagine he is also up to his neck on other matters so time must be limited.
From an email conversation we had over the past two days I think he is willing to discuss a Wish List here, as he would regard this type of discussion fun and interesting. However he also advises that he can issue no further "forward-looking statements" for the time being.
I suggested that I collect 5 -6 Wish list items that are high priority and maybe quote them under a new thread for John to take up and comment on.
I will try to collect them here in this post first or you can PM them to me.
Tomasz's Wish List item.
@unknownuser said:
I would like to see a 64bit version of SketchUp with multi-thread support with a C++ SDK that will allow 3rd party developers to modify every smallest detail in a model & application (access to sections, watermarks, dimensions, PhotoMatch, control over OpenGL viewport,...), native "ThickFaces" (there were rumours about them, if I remember well, before Google took-over).
If this will be achieved, SketchUp will be available in multiple flavours, which will suit certain user requirements.
ThomThom Wish List item.
@thomthom said:
My wish is to improve the Ruby API platform with more access and control over the SketchUp environment. There are many things there that can be added and improved. (For instance, getting unicode support into the Ruby API - since we're dealing with unicode strings and filenames elsewhere and it's an international userbase.)
Hieru (David) Wish List Item
@hieru said:
And as far as really fundamental things are concerned, can we please, please, please see a solution to the dreaded camera cropping issue; there are workarounds like working in parallel projection or changing the field of view angle, but it really gets in the way of your work flow.
Paul Russam's Wish List Items
@paul russam said:
A lot of the wish list requests so far have been what I'd call 'under the skin' functionality (better API, 64bit etc) so I thought I'd chime in with some usability ideas.
Layers:
Layer grouping/hierarchy.
Layer settings (like AutoCAD) colour/weight etc.Scenes:
To be honest I think the scenes are fine, the only problem comes when a new layer is created and you have to go through all the existing scenes switching it on/off and re-saving the scene(s). I know that there is a plugin (Add hidden Layer) but as its in the plugins menu I forget 99% of the time to use it. Maybe new layers should be off by default in existing scenes or highlighted in some way.Folder Paths:
Customisable paths for Plugins etc. with multiple folders selectable or each type. (Again like AutoCAD...sorry
)
If I could specify multiple folders for plugins I could for example have a folder for the 'as supplied' another for the free and another for the commercial plugins. Instead of a single folder for all my textures I could have ones for Wood, Metals, Project specific etc.Interface:
Customisable toolbars. I only use 1 or 2 of the available commands from a lot of the plugins I have installed but I have to have the entire plugin's toolbar visible to access them. If I was able to create my own toolbar(s) with only the commands I wanted it would simplify my environment massively.Profiles:
Specify a template/ plugins /toolbar positions etc and save them to a file that could be used in a shortcut/alias to start SU.
Maybe the ability to switch between profiles (interface only ?) mid session like Adobe Photoshop.Materials:
Better visual management of the swatches - I don't quite know what it should be like, I just know that currently navigating the swatches in a model with a lot of materials can be laborious.Viewer:
I know we have the free version but a stand alone viewer with no editing ability that could be run full screen or embedded within Powerpoint would be handy. The viewer would not need installing as it should/would be a single exe/dll that could be supplied with the presentation or emailed along with the model. Scene control would (I assume) need to be exposed to Powerpoint to enable buttons/keystrokes to move between them.Maths in the VCB:
More maths functions in more tools. We already have the ability to copy something and say x5 or /3 etc but I've had many occasions where I've wished for more, especially with the move command.Mac version:
I have both PC's and Mac's and I've got to say that compared to the Windows version SU on OSX is horrible, materials palette, tool bars (or the lack off), window focus and much more.
Now don't get me wrong I love my Mac's and think that for 90% of the programs that exist on both platforms, the Mac versions are nicer to use, Its just SU that I find unusable.bmike's Wish List
@bmike said:
LayOut LayOut LayOut!
As much as I like modeling in SU, I have committed to LO for my documentation. And for the time being, until we 3d print houses and buildings, or have 18" wide, tough book e-ink job site hardy slates - most folks will still rely on paper for development review, site work, submission to other professionals, redlining, etc. etc.There is a huge need to for a simple (but scalable) app that can take 3d and present it in 2d to scale - be it CDs, development review presentations (screen or paper), etc. etc. etc. - take LayOut and make it that app. And if you want, open it up so that your other apps work just as easily as SketchUp with it... site planning, GIS, etc. etc. etc.
LayOut shows us a path to a new way of presenting work for construction / fabrication / presentation. IT is not perfect, and could go a long way to being more user friendly and accurate (and consistent...).
Make if faster, and make the tools work more like SU (same pick sequence, same shortcuts, etc).
Open up some of the tools with drawing wide toggles - i.e. 'detailing mode' would have some preferences that you could toggle - vector rendering, updating of references only when you tell it to, specific layers active (perhaps there can be automatic layer creation for the dimension tool..., with ability to toggle on / off), etc., drawing wide toggle to change rendering mode for a model, better layer control (all off, off on this page, locked), etc.
And make it faster, please. Somehow take advantage of the horsepower of modern machines and make switching pages quicker... right now on large files the page switching lags...
And give us the options of components / groups for certain types of text callouts. Sometimes I really do want to change the same 20 notes in a drawing set, and it would be damned handy it I could change a master callout.
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