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Mini-challenge

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  • P Offline
    pbacot
    last edited by 30 Apr 2012, 09:22

    From tip to tip you have length A-C the hypotenuse on the board. You know the width of the board B-C so you can find A-B. So when you have a board A-B long exactly you can rotate it with snaps then trim it, but is the rotate operation inaccurate?

    MacOSX MojaveSketchUp Pro v19 Twilight v2 Thea v3 PowerCADD

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    • J Offline
      jeff hammond
      last edited by 30 Apr 2012, 09:28

      @pbacot said:

      From tip to tip you have length A-C the hypotenuse on the board. You know the width of the board B-C so you can find A-B. So when you have a board A-B long exactly you can rotate it with snaps then trim it, but is the rotate operation inaccurate?

      rotate is accurate.. you just need something to snap to which is hard to get in this case..

      but what you're saying.. can you do that geometrically (as in, can you do it using only sketchup tools) or would you need a calculator?
      (currently, the only way i've been able to do it is with a calculator (well, i use the DC dialog for the calculator that can then adjust the position of lines))

      dotdotdot

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      • T Offline
        thomthom
        last edited by 30 Apr 2012, 09:52

        Cursed this challenge! Now it really bothers me that I cannot find an easy way for this in SU.
        I'm not even quite sure how to calculate the angel... ?

        Thomas Thomassen โ€” SketchUp Monkey & Coding addict
        List of my plugins and link to the CookieWare fund

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        • G Offline
          Gaieus
          last edited by 30 Apr 2012, 09:56

          Yes, it's a pity that true geometry is impossible in SU and one always needs to rely on workarounds. In this "rotation" workaround you still get a 0.01 cm (0.1 mm) inaccuracy which is obviously okay for constructing but annoying to know there is in your model since you never know when exactly you'd need that accuracy for inferencing.

          I have drawn two guides at 5 (well I used cms but who cares) apart and then tried to rotate them but as you can see, although I do get the endpoint inferencing, SU actually does not know what it is inferring there along the guide.


          01.png


          02.png


          03.png

          Gai...

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          • T Offline
            thomthom
            last edited by 30 Apr 2012, 10:01

            Align.png

            Thomas Thomassen โ€” SketchUp Monkey & Coding addict
            List of my plugins and link to the CookieWare fund

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            • P Offline
              pilou
              last edited by 30 Apr 2012, 10:02

              Like in reality what more simple without any Plugin ? ๐Ÿ’š
              The big one is of course any what you want!
              Groups are any size!
              general.jpg

              Frenchy Pilou
              Is beautiful that please without concept!
              My Little site :)

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              • T Offline
                thomthom
                last edited by 30 Apr 2012, 10:03

                @gaieus said:

                I have drawn two guides at 5 (well I used cms but who cares) apart and then tried to rotate them

                What where you snapping to/with?

                Thomas Thomassen โ€” SketchUp Monkey & Coding addict
                List of my plugins and link to the CookieWare fund

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                • G Offline
                  Gaieus
                  last edited by 30 Apr 2012, 10:06

                  It's in the screenshot. But note that no matter how "close" you seem to snap along a guide (or any edge), it will never be accurate (second screen shot). The cursor is "sliding along" the guide and does no give an accurate inference.

                  Gai...

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                  • T Offline
                    thomthom
                    last edited by 30 Apr 2012, 10:06

                    @unknownuser said:

                    Like in reality what more simple without any Plugin ? ๐Ÿ’š
                    The big one is of course any what you want!
                    Groups are any size!
                    [attachment=0:1cpfqa3m]<!-- ia0 -->general.jpg<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:1cpfqa3m]

                    Wooh! Now I understand. I just didn't notice how you originally aligned the board.

                    Thomas Thomassen โ€” SketchUp Monkey & Coding addict
                    List of my plugins and link to the CookieWare fund

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                    • P Offline
                      pilou
                      last edited by 30 Apr 2012, 10:37

                      @unknownuser said:

                      How ?

                      By the simple use of the Rotate tool !!! โ˜€
                      And that will be the same for the second rotation ๐Ÿ˜‰
                      Just put the Rotation tool on the other group's axe and rotate the view for snap on the good point! ๐Ÿ˜‰
                      So you can now draw the 2 little segments for the Push cut! ๐Ÿ˜Ž

                      Any calculate was tourmented during the movie! ๐Ÿ’š

                      How.jpg

                      rotate1.jpg

                      Frenchy Pilou
                      Is beautiful that please without concept!
                      My Little site :)

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                      • T Offline
                        TIG Moderator
                        last edited by 30 Apr 2012, 11:07

                        @pbacot said:

                        Well if you had a true arc or circle you could find your exact intersection points. But there are no true circles in SU.
                        My 'TrueTangent' tools have various options, in this case you could place a cpoint exactly at the 'true-intersection' of two SUpArcs...


                        AccurateRoatationWithTrueTangents.skp

                        TIG

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                        • P Offline
                          pilou
                          last edited by 30 Apr 2012, 11:19

                          @unknownuser said:

                          it will never be accurate (second screen shot). The cursor is "sliding along" the guide and does no give an accurate inference.

                          ๐Ÿ˜ฎ ๐Ÿ˜ฎ ๐Ÿ˜ฎ
                          That will say that any rotation can be made precisely? ๐Ÿ˜ฒ ๐Ÿ˜ฒ ๐Ÿ˜ฒ

                          You can make zoom during the process!
                          And re look my last image, there is green point that indicate that the snap is done! ๐Ÿ˜‰
                          And a red one will be drawn at the end of the last snaping on the group!

                          What do you want more accurate ? ๐Ÿ˜ฒ

                          big_snap.jpg

                          I have verified! Seems you right!
                          That is very ennoyous and want to say that any constructions made with align / Roation are false! ๐Ÿ˜ฒ

                          Another headache to resolve! ๐Ÿ˜ฒ

                          Frenchy Pilou
                          Is beautiful that please without concept!
                          My Little site :)

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                          • D Offline
                            Dave R
                            last edited by 30 Apr 2012, 11:40

                            Jeff, I've had to draw diagonals like this a number of times and not found an elegant solution. It's always been via brute force. I forgot about TIG's True Tangents.

                            Etaoin Shrdlu

                            %

                            (THERE'S NO PLACE LIKE)

                            G28 X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0

                            M30

                            %

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                            • T Offline
                              thomthom
                              last edited by 30 Apr 2012, 11:42

                              @dave r said:

                              Jeff, I've had to draw diagonals like this a number of times and not found an elegant solution. It's always been via brute force. I forgot about TIG's True Tangents.

                              Pilou's method was quite easy and simple. And also accurate!

                              Thomas Thomassen โ€” SketchUp Monkey & Coding addict
                              List of my plugins and link to the CookieWare fund

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                              • D Offline
                                Dave R
                                last edited by 30 Apr 2012, 11:47

                                @thomthom said:

                                @dave r said:

                                Jeff, I've had to draw diagonals like this a number of times and not found an elegant solution. It's always been via brute force. I forgot about TIG's True Tangents.

                                Pilou's method was quite easy and simple. And also accurate!

                                Yes, his way works, sort of. The second rotation is not perfectly accurate, though. I meant to simply draw it in place.

                                Etaoin Shrdlu

                                %

                                (THERE'S NO PLACE LIKE)

                                G28 X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0

                                M30

                                %

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                                • T Offline
                                  thomthom
                                  last edited by 30 Apr 2012, 12:20

                                  @dave r said:

                                  The second rotation is not perfectly accurate, though.

                                  Seemed to snap perfectly in my test... what am I missing?

                                  @dave r said:

                                  though. I meant to simply draw it in place.

                                  Ah - no post-cropping?

                                  Thomas Thomassen โ€” SketchUp Monkey & Coding addict
                                  List of my plugins and link to the CookieWare fund

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                                  • oganocaliO Offline
                                    oganocali
                                    last edited by 30 Apr 2012, 12:36

                                    Nice challenge by the way, at first I thought this should be easy but then...

                                    You can also perform the rotation as a tangent to the drawn arc, (referencing the vertices on the arc). Of course it is not exact but the angular error is vanishingly small (approximately a^2*t/l ; t,l thickness and length of the rail, a is angular resolution on the arc (total angle/number of segments) in radians)). The final rotation accuracy increases with the square of the number of segments on the arc. After a few hundred segments SU makes the structure ideal at explode.
                                    slicer.png
                                    Ogan

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                                    • D Offline
                                      Dave R
                                      last edited by 30 Apr 2012, 12:58

                                      Thomas, see Pilou's last post in this thread.

                                      Etaoin Shrdlu

                                      %

                                      (THERE'S NO PLACE LIKE)

                                      G28 X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0

                                      M30

                                      %

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                                      • T Offline
                                        thomthom
                                        last edited by 30 Apr 2012, 12:59

                                        @dave r said:

                                        Thomas, see Pilou's last post in this thread.

                                        Wasn't that related to Gaieus' guideline experiment?

                                        Thomas Thomassen โ€” SketchUp Monkey & Coding addict
                                        List of my plugins and link to the CookieWare fund

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                                        • P Offline
                                          pilou
                                          last edited by 30 Apr 2012, 13:02

                                          The thing absolutly crazzy is that the Rotation tool
                                          seems accept just the base alignement as only good alignement! ๐Ÿ˜ฒ ๐Ÿ˜ฒ ๐Ÿ˜ฒ
                                          I am totally depited! ๐Ÿ˜ฎ

                                          Frenchy Pilou
                                          Is beautiful that please without concept!
                                          My Little site :)

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