Quantities from model

jemagnussen · 16 Jun 2011, 11:38

Hello all,

I'm working on taking out quantities for a schedule that needs to be rather detailed as it involves a delivery schedule of rock masses.
On the attached model, I need the volumes per each meter of the model (lenght 110 m) and rather than to sit and manually slice up the model in 3 x 110 pieces (3 different layers of material), would there be any way of getting such volumes out automatically? I don't have the luxury of just dividing the models volume with 110 to get the average volume per meter, I need the volume per each section seperate....
I have looked but does not find any smart plugin to do just that, but maybe I have overlooked something or someone have a smart solution...? If there was a sort of slicing tool that could slice up the model in the needed slices, then that would really help.

Brgds
Jesper

Quantities_1.skp

TIG · 16 Jun 2011, 12:17

My Slicer tool [available in Plugins here] lets you slice up a 3d group [needed to be a solid for best results] So you could slice your form 1m in X, then the bits 1m in Y etc.

There's also my Volume tool that you could use to get the volumes of the 1m bits...
There's also a tool called Zorro2 that actually slices your model [do it on a copy?] into pieces as if by a sword...

jemagnussen · 16 Jun 2011, 13:25

Hi TIG,

Thank's I will try both options (on a copy ) and see which on works best.

Best regards
Jesper

jemagnussen · 16 Jun 2011, 16:10

Hi again TIG,

I'm having some troubles using either method. When I use the Slicer, then it somehow makes a flat horizontal plane on top of the slice, meaning that there is quite a lot of work in cleaning it up. Further I have to select each slice, make a group, move the slice and un-group, then clean up to ensure that all faces are ok, re-group to make a "group solid" to see the volume.
When using the "Sword" (read Zorro2), first I have to make a guideline every 1 m to ensure correct spacing, select, group, move and again clean up and ensure faces all over as there is always missing a face, before I can re-group as a "group solid" and get the volume.
It's a lot of tedious work, but that might just be it, not much is for free in this world... I have 4 section with 4 individual layers in total 300 meter = 1200 pieces to tidy up and record the volume before I have the volume per meter per layer... gonna be some looong days ahead...

Most probably I am just doing something wrong. I have watched quite a few lessons on YouTube, but have undoubtedly missed something important....

Best regards
Jesper

mac1 · 16 Jun 2011, 16:13

@jemagnussen said:

Hi TIG,

Thank's I will try both options (on a copy ) and see which on works best.

Best regards
Jesper

Cannot not answer your specific question but alternate thought:
Convert each of you material layers to a component. You can then use the section tool( or you can draw your own cutting plane) to get the 1m slice of each of those and the vol plugin to get its vol. NOTE: some vol plugins give the bounding box vol others give the actual geo vol. so make sure you check that. Question: Is the 1m measured normal to the face or along one axis?
This is the one of TIG's I use http://rhin.crai.archi.fr/rld/plugin_details.php?id=464

jemagnussen · 16 Jun 2011, 16:15

Hi Mac1,

I need the 1 m slices parallel to the end face of the model.

Hi TIG,

When I use your Volume Plugin, it can only give me the volume after I have cleaned the slice up and then when I group it I get the volume in the Entity info box anyway...

Best regards
Jesper

mac1 · 16 Jun 2011, 16:24

@jemagnussen said:

Hi Mac1,

I need the 1 m slices parallel to the end face of the model.

Hi TIG,

When I use your Volume Plugin, it can only give me the volume after I have cleaned the slice up and then when I group it I get the volume in the Entity info box anyway...

Best regards
Jesper

Don't use entity info. I think that is bounding box also. The geo you presented is very close to the defininiton of a prismatoid. For geo meeting that def the vol is just the face area x extrusion length. That can give you a quick but inaccurate check of reults you are getting . Check using the plugin above show about +2% error for the slice I checked note I am using Su 7+ don't know how SU8 has changed. Think it is suppose to accurately cal vol.??

jemagnussen · 16 Jun 2011, 16:33

Hi Mac1,

You lost me there. When I use the Volume plugin v 2.1 as you refer to, but when I right click and ask for volume then I only get different color on the slice but no volumes indicated anywhere but in the Entity box...?
I attached my sorry attampt to get the volumes...

Brgds
Jesper

Quantities_2.skp

mac1 · 16 Jun 2011, 16:48

@jemagnussen said:

Hi Mac1,

You lost me there. When I use the Volume plugin v 2.1 as you refer to, but when I right click and ask for volume then I only get different color on the slice but no volumes indicated anywhere but in the Entity box...?
I attached my sorry attampt to get the volumes...

Brgds
Jesper

That naybe a change TIG made to that for Su8 but I don't know. My work flow;

Use section plane to cut at the 1m ref;
contex on the plane and select option to make plane a group;
Use edit menu to do an intersect with model;
You can then convert that section to a component and use the vol cal to get the vol. My test of the first meter( made error here. It is really 4+ )shows 405.918 cu m.Note I did not keep you name convention on the layers.!
See this http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=5e06e125de23b706fbae97082232979f

Ok
Using your model above:
In SU 7 first section is 62.027cu m and second is 60.624 cu m
In SU 8 using only the entity info box first and second sections give the same result without the plugin
It looks like some auto folding is occurring with you sections so make sure to use care?

jemagnussen · 16 Jun 2011, 17:19

Hi Mac1,

Yes, I get also the 62 and 60 m³ in the cleaned up slices when grouped and I belive this to be correct. I had to look up "auto fold" but got some weird video on how to use the Alt (Command) key for making fold lines...?

Best regards
Jesper

jeff hammond · 16 Jun 2011, 17:44

@mac1 said:

Don't use entity info. I think that is bounding box also.

huh?
it doesn't calculate the bounding box.. (and it's not that much work to test it out.)

check the entity info for volume of these three items

jemagnussen · 16 Jun 2011, 18:09

Hi all,

Yes, I believe that the Entity box gives rather accurate result, nlu issue is that you have to have a clean model with nice full faces and edges connected properly, otherwise it will not give you the volume, the model has to "waterproof". Using the Solid Inspector is of little use as it highlights most of the slice, it's easier to re-draw the whole cross-section and check the volume...

Brgds
Jesper

sdmitch · 16 Jun 2011, 21:39

Here is my attempt to solve your problem. I made a copy of your Quantities_1.skp. Seperated and exploded the three layers of material and moved them to individual layers. To make the selections easier, I deleted the back face leaving only the front face and the edges that connected it to the back face before running the plugin. A report file is generated listing the area of each face and the volume between them.

kyyu · 17 Jun 2011, 01:20

@sdmitch, WoW, that's a great plugin you whipped up for this one off problem. I will have to study it, a little, for my education.

@jemagnussen, I always like to try things out. I used sketchup's "Outer Shell" feature to combine your 3 layers into 1 (2 at a time). Then used sdmitch's volume plugin, which looks to work great. One thing, that I had to figure out was, don't select the front face edges. Only the front face and the lines extending back. I double checked the volume by grouping the 1st and last slice, and checking the volume in "entitiy info box" and it was very close to the output file.

Quantities_1b.skp
volume_1b.txt

-Kwok

jeff hammond · 17 Jun 2011, 03:42

.

keyboard maestro

[flash=700,510:2c8kzkb2]http://www.youtube.com/v/EXnXNV61ycA?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0&hd=1[/flash:2c8kzkb2]

[sorry about the loud trackpad clicks.. i guess it's pretty close to the laptop mic.. i'll use a mouse next time]

jemagnussen · 17 Jun 2011, 08:32

Hi all and welcome to a new day... (here in West Africa that is... )

sdmitch,
I don't really know what is the problem with my setup, but when I try your method and run the Volume Plug-in on a slice where I take out only front face (with edges) and the edges protruding towards the back face that I have deleted after selecting both and then group them, I don't get a proper "group solid" that I can get the volume from. I run Sketchup 8 Pro on XP SP3 and tried to use your version of the volume plug-in, which I believe is same as TIG's volume plug-in... or ? But don't get it to work, so far only way for me is to re-draw every 1 meter cross section and make it into a "group solid" in order to get it to work.

kyyu,
I have tried to work with your file for a long time, but fails to get any "group solid" and volume out of it...? Must be my setup that is something wrong with.

Jeff Hammond,

WoW Jeff, I'm impressed. You did a very fine job at that, as you can see from my text above I'm in the situation that my old XP does not really have the capabilities of your Mac system. One friend of mine recently let me play around with his iPad for some days, and yes, it rocks. If only Steve was not as proprietary as he is then it would probably convince me to move to the Mac platform... I really wish I could do what you did on your Mac, that is just what I need, and probably a lot of other folks in the construction industry. Take a road for example; it would be a breeze to take out quantities with your setup.

So far it looks like there is only the hard way for me, but THANK YOU all for your time and effort to try to solve this for me, I really appreciate it. And please excuse my English, it’s my second language as I’m Danish.

jemagnussen · 17 Jun 2011, 08:52

Hi again,

Come to think about it, it might be much easier to make the quantity take out by taking the volume of the first and last 1 m slice and enter the numbers in Excel and let it figure out the even distibution in between. Think that is an easier approach.

I'm working hard to use 3D visualization in my profession as Production Manager on construction projects, the model here is part of a new groyne, and being able to use Sketchup to produce and present the 3D visualization of the project and the steps in between is really a benefit for all parties involved.
The quantification would also look good if being able to present it visually in 3D, slice by slice, but it is probably overkill as an Excel sheet will just as well show the factual quantities and for the time being be most trustworthy for the parties involved as it is a sort of a defacto standard.

Best regards
Jesper

TIG · 17 Jun 2011, 09:06

With v8 'volume' is built-in.
My Volume plugins come in two versions - an integration one [by slice], that is slow but reliable to within certain accuracy; and one using topology, that is fast but fails with non-solid/manifold objects.
My Slicer isn't probably accurate enough to use for your purposes.
Jeff's clever macro method is the best without writing a purpose made plugin...
This is a simple free PC tool http://www.nonags.com/freeware-do-it-again_43.html or this one http://freelabs.info/MacroRecorder.aspx or this http://download.cnet.com/Easy-Macro-Recorder/3000-2094_4-10414139.html [15day-trial] - there are also several others with more features for a few $...

sdmitch · 19 Jun 2011, 00:50

jemagnussen, My volumn plugins doesn't create any "solids" it only creates faces at 1m intervals. Using Sketchup's face.area gives the area of the face and I just average the areas of the adjacent faces to obtain the volume of that "slice" and write that out to a text file. That's all I thought you were looking for.

mac1 · 19 Jun 2011, 03:51

@jemagnussen said:

Hi again,

Come to think about it, it might be much easier to make the quantity take out by taking the volume of the first and last 1 m slice and enter the numbers in Excel and let it figure out the even distibution in between. Think that is an easier approach.

Question this. Do you have an spread sheet to do this and checked it. The vol as you step down your model may not be linear and you may have as much work as just using SU. I have not checked this however.

I'm working hard to use 3D visualization in my profession as Production Manager on construction projects, the model here is part of a new groyne, and being able to use Sketchup to produce and present the 3D visualization of the project and the steps in between is really a benefit for all parties involved.
The quantification would also look good if being able to present it visually in 3D, slice by slice, but it is probably overkill as an Excel sheet will just as well show the factual quantities and for the time being be most trustworthy for the parties involved as it is a sort of a defacto standard.
Op Site. I had help on previous post on getting estimates of grain vol in a silo bins and it is not real straight forward. Used EXCEL there but this is more complictaed.
Do you have to show each slice for visualization. May contention is once you have the work flow set then getting the vol of each slice can be done quickly. One of your problem areas seems to be getting the solid vol to run calculations. I think there are some plugins which can help. Namely make faces and ?? ( Need to find for you). Some time ago I ran a number of test on TIG's cal I ref above using the prismatoid approach as an easy check point and it is most certainly accurate enough for what you are doing. I am like wise certain the SU 8 included capability is accurate too.
For presentation using scenes to separate the 3 materials maybe useful.
Well get the plugin info and get back with you
Good Luck

Best regards
Jesper