Google is Listening!
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@adamb said:
The big problem - I've seen this often in the past - is where people fall into the trap when asked for feature requests, by being proscriptive about their preferred solution. We should focus on things we'd like SketchUp to be able to do and not tell the Developers how they should be realised.
Yup - ditto. I read multi-core support as "increased performance". But people gets fixated on reading that it should have mulit-core support to be fast - so when performance increase is provided, such as in SU7.1 - it doesn't get full credit.
Best thing we (the users) can do is request the goal - then let the engineers work out the means. -
@thomthom said:
@adamb said:
Like Jeff Hammond, I struggle to understand what workflow using SU requires 2 GB of memory. I'd say your workflow needs looking at.
When you export really large 2d exports that memory usage easily run up to that point - nothing to do with the workflow. But that's about the only area where SU itself run into the memory issue. Mostly it's when using render engines that run inside SU's process.
I don't understand. 10000 pixel * 10000 pixel * RGBA is 400MBytes. You're doing images larger than this? Mad.
EDIT: OK perhaps not Mad. But surprising.
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AdamB, I totally agree with you regarding the typical request for a compiled 64 bit version of SU. While I understand users preference for real time modeling, and rendering, until Intel finds a way to exceed the current limit on processor speed, it's not likely that those goals will be achieved. Even multi processor programing have limits bound by CPU speed.
All 64 bit programming provide for, is more memory addresses.
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my requests.
move OBJ Import / Export to the Free Edition. since OBJ is the most common denominator for 3D interchange it makes more sense and will increase SU's usage all round. Collada is a bit of a joke.. while many programs write it.. you can count the amount that read it on both hands with at least 4 fingers left over.
Improved UV support.
better handling of high polygon models. there's a huge resource of human models in the poser world. we could be using them.. but just 1 human right now will bring SU to it's knees.
listen to the Ruby writers and give them what they want. they right now are SU's greatest asset.
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Whatever the argument for it (multi-core or 64 bit) I'd like to see SU support and handle higher poly counts with better optimization. I can open something in Sculptris or Blender that consume a small percentage of memory, compared to SU which might consume 1-2 or even more GB of memory and be so slow as to become unusable.
Not all of us use SU for simple models like houses or buildings. It doesn't have to be Zbrush, but somewhere in-between would be nice to better model more organic shapes.
Ditto on the UVW support. Even without high-poly support, texturing and materials are one of my biggest points of frustration in SU.
That said, there's another wish-list floating around on the site, it's full of good ideas.
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SketchUp is a 3D modeling program...
so why not add more modeling tools?
There are a lot of tools that can make it modeling more easy and fun...
For example:
http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=323&t=16909
or
http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=19321#p159451Animation is also something like I want to have inside SketchUp.
If this kind of things can´t be made in the native SketchUp tools because can break other things... why don´t you try to release tools as plugins?
Plugins are very important... so why not add some kind of plugin organizer?
I want to see evolution of tools too. In lot of SU tools there are small things that can make it Sketchup more powerfull. Why not add push/pull for edges?, push/pull for curved or smoothed surfaces, offset for curved or smoothed surfaces, use the scale tool for scaling edges....
My list is very long... but for SU9 I want to be surprised!
Daniel S
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My opinions -
- Yes, the x64 is overrated. It has now become an 'oohhh ahhh' buzzword.
- The UI look hasn't changed - not even the startup icon. I know it does nothing to improve the speed. Marketing-wise, some people tend to purchase upgrades because of the snazzy new look.
- I think you should have paid some royalties to some of the more powerful ruby designers and incorporated some of their ideas into the SU. It is THEY who are keeping your program alive and exciting for me. Some of them are just genius and I cannot imagine NOT having their scripts included in my daily arsenal of tools.
- Last, but not least for me - you just can't take away features from the free version! It's just wrong. Perhaps by keeping them in and ENHANCING them in the paid version would entice users to upgrade to the paid version. I highly recommend the 'How to win friends and influence people' book.
As I said, I'm sticking with 7.1 free because (at a glance) it has more to offer me than 8.
Rick
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If Google would listening we would not have this Version 8. It's a fake...not worth to respond
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@gaieus said:
Hi Carolyn and welcome to SCF!
(Please, old members, easy with our new member, she has just joined the SU Team...)
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yes I think it is always wise for a software company to stick with a design that will keep them being used in some kind of compatibility mode.
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@unknownuser said:
@thomthom said:
Faster? 64bit can be slower. The data types are longer - takes more power to process. 64bit != Speed
True, but I always thought that when you have a 64 Bit chip the increase in speed is in fact there. I can imagine it's slower on 32 Bit hardware. I have a 64 Bit Intel in this machine I'm using now and it should run a 64 Bit SketchUp faster than a 32 Bit. Are you saying that would not be the case?
32-bit hardware is not capable of running 64bit. You must have 64bit hardware to run 64bit software. And yes - 64bit means more data which means more processing power required.
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As for the comparisons of polycount handling in SU vs other applications - which other application provides a sketchy rendered view like SketchUp? All these applications SU are compared against does not provide a presentation quality viewport - they all require you to render. Max, Maya Blender etc - it's just shaded wireframes with lots of visual glitches that would not work as presentation output.
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@adamb said:
I don't understand. 10000 pixel * 10000 pixel * RGBA is 400MBytes. You're doing images larger than this?
This is not possible on Windows as far as I know. My PC have 4GB ram and I can't export larger than some 4000px.
And THAT is not enough.Thomthom said it right. For me increased speed isn't what I expect from a 64bit version.
Its all a memory issue thing. Especially with third party renderers (like Vray).And Coen, thank you for stepping up and expressing what I and several other loyal SketchUp users feel about SU8.
Things like "Google is listening" and "Your wish is our demand" feels like a slap in the face.
I don't see any creativity and new thinking in the latest release.
It's more of a bug fix release that should have been free.
As I said in another post: What arguments should I tell my boss to get him to upgrade to v8?What I would wish for is some kind of discussion with the Google team about the future developments of SU.
Not just a wishlist. What do we (the users) need/want? What is possible? How can it be achieved?
Things like, Google team concentrating on the core and giving community developers even more access to enhance SketchUp in ways that cannot be done today. Or maybe going open source all together?
Or no further development for "professional users"...and then we know and can move on to other software. -
I find it interesting that SU8 was released during basecamp.
Would it not have made more sense to release it before so that people could have tried it and be able to discuss it with some experience at basecamp.
A more cynical person might suspect that it allowed basecamp to ignore the nuts and bolts of it and just get the Hype of a new release. -
@pixero said:
@adamb said:
I don't understand. 10000 pixel * 10000 pixel * RGBA is 400MBytes. You're doing images larger than this?
This is not possible on Windows as far as I know. My PC have 4GB ram and I can't export larger than some 4000px.
And THAT is not enough.Confirmed. I just attached some instrumentation to SU7, and for a 8000x5000 pixel jpeg export (NO ANTIALIASING) memory increases temporarily to 550MB (roughly what you'd expect).
However, WITH ANTIALIASING, it gets to 3.0GB allocated and counting and my Mac starts choking..
My guess its likely that Google are doing a simple supersampling to get antialiasing. eg you ask for 8000 pixels, and it actually renders internally at 8000 x 4=32000 and then filters back down to 8000 hence the insane memory requirements.
So I'd say this is a straight forward bug that you should file with Google.
Its a trivial fix for SU to render in strips so they use less memory at any 1 time.
Adam
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Ben, I rather think it was "only" connected to a kind of ceremony when th 10th anniversary of SU was also celebrated. I do not find any cynical in it though probably it was a bit "uncomfortable" at least for those participating and hearing about SU 8 the first time as many could not put on their hands on the new version.
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Thanks Csaba, I was curious to hear how those at basecamp actually felt about it.
It must have come as a bit of a shock. -
Passion runs deep in this community. SU has Come a long way from where it started. Remember when we had to FAKE transparency? because there was no such thing as having a transparent surface material. Have a look at the icon its a pencil sketching a house....that's the origins of this program. It was created as an application to make it simpler to create 3d in the computer in a method that was closer to real world than currently existing 3d modeling software. The developers and the users and the third party ruby programmers have pushed and pulled Sketchup into its current configuration, but lets not loose sight of the origins of the program. I have a mental picture here of a normal looking Honda civic un imposing but functional. and then the next picture is of a totally pimped out low riding flame throwing Honda civic pumping out jamming bass and lit up with neon lights...but under the hood it's still the simple Honda civic. SU has been pimped out but it's still a Honda civic.
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@adamb said:
Confirmed. I just attached some instrumentation to SU7, and for a 8000x5000 pixel jpeg export (NO ANTIALIASING) memory increases temporarily to 550MB (roughly what you'd expect).
Doesn't seem to be that easy - the content of the file appear to be of importance as well. Because the limit to how large I can export depends from model to model. Some exports large, some doesn't. Some, I have to export as BMP instead of any of the compressed formats. And if I want to export a second image I need to restart SU to make it work.
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@unknownuser said:
Carolyn,
I want to apologize to you beforehand if my reply is going to sound a bit blunt, but reading these forums daily and most recently the response to Eight I feel something needs to be said. I realize I am not the best person to point this out given I started this website to support this product 5 years ago come September 9th, but as a supporter you need to be honest too.
I don't know how to say this in a 'nice' way but this morning when I saw this post by what appeared to be from a Google staff member, I could not believe it. People filled out Google's questionnaire, about what features are highest on their wish list some time ago. Almost none of the features that were on that list have made it into version 8. Now it may have been the case that when that list was concluded, that there was already a feature freeze for Eight, but come on, any modern day 3D application has 64 Bit support and most certainly supports more than 4 Gb of memory.
I don't understand Google. And I am speaking directly to them, certainly not the @Last core group that is still present to this day. In the days of @Last Software, if several people had the same feature request, the development team would deliver. Google says it listens, but can you honestly say this is the case?
It's hard for me to say this, given I have always backed every release since version 4. I was there when Pro users were slamming the Six release, defending it to the end. I was there when Seven came out and the same thing happened all over again. Even though I felt those two releases had good feature sets, I could not entirely disagree with the dismay of some Pro users.
Now Eight has come along and I just can't do the same anymore. Quite frankly speaking I find this post an insult for all of those people that voted in the aforementioned questionnaire. I can't speak for other people, but I can imagine if you have filled out that questionnaire last year you must feel like a complete idiot right now. You can not post something like that, then a year or so later release a product which has almost none of the features included. And when Google responds to the 64 Bit question with "What's the use of it?", you know just how well it listens.
I am not in the business of grilling the SketchUp people. I love you guys to death. After the two last releases I really believed you guys would have learned some key things about this community, about your customers. I am sorry to say that this is not the case and I honestly fear the worst. I can't speak for others, but I for one am not going to fill out another questionnaire or similar. Google already has all the answers it needs. Asking for the same thing twice is just silly.
+1...and I'll answer the same thing as Coen...take a look at the SU8 whishlist, and you'll get your answers. That's all. And Good luck for your new work Carolyn.
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