Question for our friends from Great Britain
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@chrisjk said:
Somehow I prefer the Queen as Head of State to President Brown...
Why?
I'm not a big fan of any current politician, but why replace them with that old dragon?
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I agree the phrases
President Cameron
President Brown
President Blair
President Thatcher
each fill me ever increasing dread.
Strangely 'President Churchill' doesn't seem so bad in the perspective of history BUT 'President Cromwell' [or Lord Protector (of the Commonwealth of England, Scotland and Ireland) Cromwell to give him his actual title] seems quite awful - but that was back in our Puritan-Taliban days - that are not so long ago and thereby worrying that things can swing so dramatically...
I think there is lots wrong with the UK's monarchy but 'better the devil you know that the devil you don't...'.
We currently have a relatively benign monarch - if that were to change - as with King Charles, then I'm sure a republic would be on the cards again...
But let's not forget that the Prime Minister [or the First Lord of the Treasury as he is also known in his dual role (and was solely known as until as recently as 5 December 1905) - indeed 10 Downing Street is actually the FLofT's house and technically NOT the Prime Minister's home at all] - is already the UK's de facto 'president' for day to day purposes - however, he/she does not have 'ultimate' constitutional power - unlike say in France where the President does and his appointed prime-minister is his lackey... An American President is all but effectively chosen from a list of two people - so hardly a wide range there either ?All weird stuff - if the UK were to change over to a Presidential system I'm sure many of us'd soon be longing for the 'good old days' when we had a monarch - just as happened after Cromwell died and his son proved useless - when parliament actually asked the beheaded king's son to return and become the king again, in the Restoration - and that was when monarchs were really crap...
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Interesting replies.
Yes - those queens (and perhaps Kings) of the past 200 years are fascinating to us Yanks. (Plus the older ones - after reading Wolf Hall I watched the movies and mini-series's on Henry VIII) But we do wonder if you get tired of having to support them.
On the other hand we support 100 senators who can't seem to find a way to do anything.
I was interested yesterday to learn that Senator Bayh from Indiana (where I grew up), has decided that he would rather retire than be a meaningless pawn in a meaningless game. It makes a lot of sense, but I guess I didn't really think any senators were either smart enough, or had enough nerve, to get tired of the current situation.
Al Hart
IRender nXt from Render Plus -
The past 200 years is pretty easy, as Liz and Vicky take up well over half of that between them.
Starting in 1800, you've still got Georgie (III) much-beloved of you colonials. He ruled from just prior to the Revolutionary War until Napoleon was finally seen off.He was followed by his son, George IV (not very imaginative, the Hanovarians)
George IV didn't last very long and was succeeded by his brother Bill (IV) who lasted even less. Then you've got Victoria, who takes us all the way into the 20th century, just...followed by her son Edward VII. Both are easily remembered and fixed in time because of the eras named after them.
Teddy was gone before WWI got under way and was succeeded by his son George V...the one who's a dead ringer for his cousin, Tsar Nicholas...both of them Vicky's grandsons.
He was succeeded by his son Edward VIII...of Mrs Simpson fame...the one who abdicated after a few years and was replaced by his bro George VI...Liz's dad.
There you go...easy
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Well .... no, I won't start - we'll keep it friendly on this forum!!
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All of Europe's royal houses have an interesting family tree, considering they're all related, and have been intermarrying for generations - apparently, family reunions were the place to meet your future spouse. Elizabeth II's husband is a cousin, and Prince Charles' great-great-great grandfather (Edward VII) is his wife Camilla's great-great grandfather (from his illegitimate daughter). Given the problems they've had when marrying "commoners" perhaps Parlaiment should enact a law restricting marriage to within the family (then they might breed themselves out of existence).
Alan, Tsar Nicholas was not Queen Victoria's grandson - but his wife was her grand daughter. Nicholas and his cousin George V did share the same grandfather in the King of Denmark, though. It's all one big, happy German family (except the Swedish royal family - which is French!)
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Well Daniel...just goes to show my memory isn't perfect.
Let's hope that Charles has the same short reign that Edward had...the last son to follow a long-reigning mother.
I doubt he'll be remembered for an innovative, less cluttered style of architecture, though...like the one that bears the name of his great grandfather.Personally, I'm undecided about the value of the royal family. Of course it's an outdated tradition, well past its sell-by date...and utterly irrelevant to the everyday lives of ordinary people. On the other hand, they do bring in the tourist dollars; and the queen does act as a figurehead...so we don't feel the need to imbue political figures with undue patriotic fervour, or fly the union flag from everything vaguely pointy.
They do have their advantages, but I'm pretty sure that will all change with a change of monarch. The new encumbents have pretty much blown all public respect with all their shenanigins. I think the future of the monarchy might all revolve around how William V performs.We really could do with a proper national anthem, too. God Save the Queen isn't technically an anthem at all; and it's usually played so slowly that it sounds like a dirge. It's not very complimentary about Scots, either. A good job most people can't remember past verse 1.
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I'd just about have managed Vicky, Eddie and Liz, but nothing more and not the numbers!
As for Royal shennanigans - my old Dad always used to say that Phil had his moments in his younger days. And Marge! Even I can remember that scandal followed her about. Phil was just fortunate not to have the instant global media coverage that the current disgraceful mob have had to put up with.
Personally, I have switched from being a supporter of the Royals (in my younger days) to wanting some serious overhaul of the current system.
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@alan fraser said:
I think the future of the monarchy might all revolve around how William V performs.
His full names being William Arthur Phillip Louis he'll probably call himself something other than William. How about taking the name Arthur so we can truly have a King Arthur on the throne!
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@petercharles said:
@alan fraser said:
I think the future of the monarchy might all revolve around how William V performs.
His full names being William Arthur Phillip Louis he'll probably call himself something other than William. How about taking the name Arthur so we can truly have a King Arthur on the throne!
i agree, i think the British love his Monarchynot so sure in Spain
we are in trouble now -
Somewhat easier in Norway - we imported our Royal family from Denmark about 100 years ago - after the separation from Sweden. So we only have three Kings to keep track of.
Though - if you start asking about Viking kings... that's another story... -
I remember from school being told that the political value of the British monarchy was actually quite significant as the British Army are answerable to them, not the government.
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The British military swear fealty to the monarch, but take their orders from the government. I think one reason why the monarchy has survived in the UK to this day is because it is powerless.
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powerlees is in Spain for sure, though the King made a strong movement when the Government was kidnapped in the first eighties.
I think Queen Elizabeth would have done the same on their Country.
so really they are not powerless,
no, Daniel ? -
I think the Spanish king may have more power than the English monarch, who must follow the advice of the government. If he/she doesn't, it leads to a "constitutional crises;" the last English monarch to do so, Edward VIII, had to abdicate.
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A useful summary with potted histories
http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/England-History/KingsandQueens.htm
The entry I like is:
HARDICANUTE 1040 - 1042
Son of CANUTE Died drunk, aged 24Does nothing change!
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