Freelance price range?
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3d modeling and rendering is indeed a labor of love.
The image of the starving artist has never been so vivid as in this industry, it takes thousands of hours to get to a level where you can offer your services with confidence, it takes thousands of dollars to get the equipment needed to complete such endeavors in a timely manner, then even more thousands to get the software needed to be able to accomplish the expected results and then lets not forget the thousands upon thousands of forum posts and gallery posts in order to sell yourself.
I was watching a PPS documentary on people who are obsessed with online gaming and in the documentary they talked about a company in China that employs hundreds of people to play WOW (world of warcraft) not for entertainment but to collect power-ups, shields, swords, spells, etc They call them ‘miners’ and then this company sells these virtual items for real money online at places like EBay, paying the ‘workers’ next to nothing for their hours and hours of work.
Sure this industry is not like game mining, but there are very similar parallels, and many freelancers like myself have felt the brunt of it.
I would love to charge $10 p/h but I live in Dallas and I could never support my family on that.I have a handful of loyal client/friends that keep me chugging along, not enough work to swamp me under at the moment, but sufficient to still be doing what I do.
They know my work is consistent, on time, priced right and they know that they can communicate their ideas, concepts and visions with me and together we will achieve their goals. That is why they return, not because of price, but service. -
I once had an art director tell me " I don't care if you draw it on toilet paper, I just want results". Sometimes I fell that thats what the art director or client thinks of my work; looks
at it, then uses it to wipe his behind. I do resdential design, including the construction drawings required by the building department; when I can get the work. I would not be doing that, if the person could get building permits with out the drawings. They see my work as
a waste of time and money. But will think nothing of paying a contractor or for the materials
to build their new home. Why, because the will have something real to look at in the end.When determaning a fee, I obtain as much detail about the project as possible(I call this "putting a fence around the project") doing the work for a contractor or the client.
I approach the client explaining that the "foundation" for a project does not start by
placing forms and pouring concrete at the job site; but starts with a good design and construction drawings. That changing design features is less expensive on the computer; then having the contractor rebuild or change features on the job site. Getting the client to understand that your relationship has value, will help in establishing your fee. Including the quality of your drawings in your descussion with the client. Good drawings=less errows on the job site.I hope this helps, Bob
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Hello again all
there is a reason why i asked the question before and after reading the responses i feel compelled to ask another question and would be interested to hear your replies
if as a designer you could use your skills to create sinple and even complex designs and products that could be reproduced on robotic tools like CNC routers and Mills and lathes even hotwire foam cutters etc
that you could publish through a common website and make money from your work on an ongoing basis by way of sharing royalty with the publisher of said work.
not unlike turbosquid with 3d models or itunes with musicians songs would that not be a cool way to over time be fairly compensated for your work. the more prolific you are the more you could earn. the better the designs the more you could charge.
would this not be a great way to supplement your income and help offset some of those large costs and thousands of hours put in to learn this craft ?Roboitc tools are coming of age and in the near future i see robotic routers in every home depot and hardware store, opening up a huge oppurtunity for you modelers artists and designers to supply a hungry global market of hobby and semi pro robotic tool owners with pre packaged design content
FABSall that was needed was a few standards and basic rules to follow so that the end user or robotic tool owner could simply plug and play the files....... follow a few simple instructions inculded in the FAB and presto your design pops up in workshops dens and basements all over the world.... distributed manufacturing green and clean and a new way for you to make a living
i am building a website just for you guys and Gals and maybe just maybe it will work
its a work in progress but i am working hard to get it up and running
check it out
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@outland86 said:
Hello again all
there is a reason why i asked the question before and after reading the responses i feel compelled to ask another question and would be interested to hear your replies
if as a designer you could use your skills to create sinple and even complex designs and products that could be reproduced on robotic tools like CNC routers and Mills and lathes even hotwire foam cutters etc
that you could publish through a common website and make money from your work on an ongoing basis by way of sharing royalty with the publisher of said work.
not unlike turbosquid with 3d models or itunes with musicians songs would that not be a cool way to over time be fairly compensated for your work. the more prolific you are the more you could earn. the better the designs the more you could charge.
would this not be a great way to supplement your income and help offset some of those large costs and thousands of hours put in to learn this craft ?Roboitc tools are coming of age and in the near future i see robotic routers in every home depot and hardware store, opening up a huge oppurtunity for you modelers artists and designers to supply a hungry global market of hobby and semi pro robotic tool owners with pre packaged design content
FABSall that was needed was a few standards and basic rules to follow so that the end user or robotic tool owner could simply plug and play the files....... follow a few simple instructions inculded in the FAB and presto your design pops up in workshops dens and basements all over the world.... distributed manufacturing green and clean and a new way for you to make a living
i am building a website just for you guys and Gals and maybe just maybe it will work
its a work in progress but i am working hard to get it up and running
check it out
Add a Historic preservation element to what you are doing, and I'm there.
Here is a little taste of what I mean.
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/cldetails?mid=31954958c83e45265455dab34d864ef9
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Solo,
I could possibly be taking you up on that very soon if some things come through as they look to be. I will let you know.
Scott
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That would be great, looking forward to it.
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This is quite interesting. I have put together a few files for a local fellow who has a CNC woodcarving unit, Mostly signs, and these are remarkable machines that can produce very accurate and detailed work.
I am wondering though if you have any recommendations for reversing the process. In other words do you know of reasonable 3D scanning devices that can generate files that are applicable in CNC work. -
@dale said:
This is quite interesting. I have put together a few files for a local fellow who has a CNC woodcarving unit, Mostly signs, and these are remarkable machines that can produce very accurate and detailed work.
I am wondering though if you have any recommendations for reversing the process. In other words do you know of reasonable 3D scanning devices that can generate files that are applicable in CNC work.hm... scanners create point clouds... CNC machines want nice vector lines. Not sure if there's any cleanup software that can "trace" a scanned mesh...
I'd think it'd involve some manual tracing... -
@thomthom said:
hm... scanners create point clouds... CNC machines want nice vector lines. Not sure if there's any cleanup software that can "trace" a scanned mesh...
I'd think it'd involve some manual tracing...You've got me curious, so I did a little search, and came up with this website.http://www.vrmesh.com/products/reverse.asp. I'm interested in doing a little more research on this.
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Wow. There really is some brainiac that's developed such a software!
cool! -
It does look good, "Guaranteed watertight polygons"
Just need the scanner.OOPs! Don't mean to hijack the thread
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PROFORMAT project method is delaunay
plugin spotted ???[flash=600,400:1avlurkl]http://www.youtube.com/v/1UCiSb3D37A&hl=fr_FR&fs=1&[/flash:1avlurkl]
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all i can say is WOW!!!!!
this is a major breakthrough
not only for CNC but also for Robotic vision in generalbut what this means to CNC in the near term is you will now very inexpensively scan in say a wood relief carving of say a deer jumping over a log or scan a clay relief sculpture ,from there you will be able to
create a 3D raster toolpath for a ball nose cutting tool and machine this relief on a robotic tool(CNC machiner) making say an ornate carved wood mantel for your fireplace.this is just one use.there are thousands that have been way to expensive up to now with 3d scanners costing thousands of dollars this will revolutionize Home and DIY CNC and robotic vision
imagine if you will a cheap robot arm that can see, this robot arm will be able to take a dremel tool and use it to cut a full 3d shape in any light material like foam for instance
this could be used to make molds or any number of things. most of all imagine if your job is to design things for this robot to make.
how hard would it be to design/make a super cheap six axis robotic arm out of MDF using inexpensive stepper motors and belts and screws that could hold a dremel tool ?
the design could be done in sketchup and i'll build the prototype in my R&D shops
i have some cnc tools to make the parts.
then we'll release the design and build instructions to the public domain
and tada!! robotic 6 axis dremel 3d carving machines will pop up in home shops all over the world
anyone up to the challange ?Join the Evolution !
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Hi guys,
What do you think is a fair price to charge for a 3D model of a proposed addition, but on a Square Foot basis? I'm getting a little more interest in my work lately, and I'm looking for a consistent pricing structure in place so I can give a ballpark quoteright off the bat
The project in question is a 10,000 SF commercial renovation.
Alternatively, do you know what drafters charge for say a set of prints for a renovation (figuring by the SF)?
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Anybody?
Or am I going about it wrong? Is it a bad idea to try to charge by the SF?
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SF charging can be OK if the work is pro rata to the SF, BUT if the the amount of work needed for a 10k SF and a 5k SF project is about the same you'll be out of pocket on the smaller project !
I think you really need to make a guesstimate of the time/resources needed - make a list of what you have to do and to issue - that way you can also monitor your progress and the clients know what to expect - when they ask for a load of colored renders and they aren't on the list you could* ask for more [*if you dare]...
Any task/contract/agreement has three elements the cost [your time, materials etc...], the timescale [when is it due, do you need to work weekends, 48 hours without sleep etc...] and the 'handshake' [what is to be done = the list].
You'll work it all out and then work back to what you think the client will stand - don't go in too low as if you have negotiator clients they'll expect to come down. Starting a little high and then settling lower but at a level you are happy with is good - both sides are happy - the client feels they have a bargain you get what you need. If you settle with no haggling it can seem unsatisfactory to both sides - you feel you might have asked for more and the client hasn't got a bargain...
I normally work out how long I think it'll take - but how long's a piece of string ? I then apply an hourly rate I feel will be acceptable - this varies by client and location and adjust the figure to a smidge above what I suspect the client is aiming at. If they screw the price down then I make it clear that the scope of works will be fixed and there'll be no free extras! If I 'repeat work' then both sides know what to expect and I'm often a little freer in the 'scope'. I have even 'sacked' clients before now - declining to work for them again, simply because they can't see that paying peanuts gets them monkeys and I could sometimes be making more per hour working in a coffee-shop and not have their hassle.
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Thanks TIG, for that excellent explanation.
Since I don't have much personal history to base my guesstimation on, I'll just have to wing it for a while yet...I'm just looking for a pricing method that is more 'calculated' and less 'by the seat of my pants'. I feel this is especially important for repeat work. Breaking it down into elements will help alot though, that's where I'll start.
Thanks again, TIG, I owe you one.
Marcus
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@d12dozr said:
Thanks again, TIG, I owe you one
Just starting out and already in debt!
Welcome to the club.
p
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Hey Paul! You're just across the crick from me.
@pmolson said:
Just starting out and already in debt!
Welcome to the club.
p
I figure I can pay it off by contributing back however I can on the forum here, which has helped me so much in this past year...(and I bought TIG a couple drinks yesterday)
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@d12dozr said:
Hi guys,
What do you think is a fair price to charge for a 3D model of a proposed addition, but on a Square Foot basis? I'm getting a little more interest in my work lately, and I'm looking for a consistent pricing structure in place so I can give a ballpark quoteright off the bat
The project in question is a 10,000 SF commercial renovation.
Alternatively, do you know what drafters charge for say a set of prints for a renovation (figuring by the SF)?
Small world!
I have been self employed for a long time and can offer some thoughts on
different ways to go about pricing in general and specifically for our
geographic area.I need some time to organize my thoughts. Stay tuned.
p
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