List of International Lumber Sizes Needed
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I'm making a lumberyard with a nice WebDialog front end. An American can pick "2x4" from a dropdown list and it fills in "1.5in" and "3.5in" in the "actual size" input boxes. Very convenient.
I'd like to do a similar list for non-Americans but I need to know what the standard sizes (nominal and actual) are.
Also, I've found this list of Canadian plywood sizes:
http://www.cwc.ca/NR/rdonlyres/EDAF96EE-EB69-44D4-8557-ED4351D9E32C/0/Plywood.pdf
(page 8). Are these sizes widely available or are there differences between the UK and France, for example?
Thanks!
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Hi Martin,
Does your lumber yard also stock waney, twisty, cupped, warped, live edge and other pretzel-wood styles such as is common in American lumber yards these days?
FWIW, the last 2x4s I bought were closer to 1-3/8" x 3-3/8".
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@unknownuser said:
This thread ... maybe useful...
Thanks, James. That's a start. Do you know if these are actual or nominal sizes?
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@unknownuser said:
I am sure the experts will chime in soon too confirm...
I hope so!
I entered your data into a Ruby program that wrote the HTML <options> lines. There are about 60 sizes. As it stands now the American list (20 sizes) is very nice, the international list is anything but convenient.
I'm thinking about going with American sizes and their millimeter rough equivalents (1x4 US nominal is .75x3.5 actual or 19x100 mm, roughly). But is a 2x4 (1.5x3.5) 38x75 or 38x100? The one I want is the one commonly used inside an interior wall.
I do hope to hear from other corners of the world. Norway? Romania? France? Australia? South America?
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Here's a list from a Norwegian manufacturer:
Planed timber: http://www.nilssontrelast.no/default.asp?page=376
Non-planes timber (not sure what the English term is): http://www.nilssontrelast.no/default.asp?page=377 -
@unknownuser said:
That would be carcassing, or timber for stud walls..In the 'Architects Pocket Book' it states that the general European sizes are:
47x100 and 50x100 so either I guess.
Below that it becomes 44 x 100 and 38 x 100 and so on.Thanks, every little bit helps.
@unknownuser said:
@thomthom said:
Non-planes timber (not sure what the English term is)
Sawn timber Thomas
That's English. It's "rough" timber in the U.S.
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@thomthom said:
Here's a list from a Norwegian manufacturer:...
Thank you, though I'm not sure I like what I see. James list of "ex" sizes has exactly zero overlap with your list of planed sizes.
I'm beginning to think this is simpler over here even tho we do have our stupid feet and inches.
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In Norway we have used inches and feet for timber, up til rather recently. But we're not supposedly all metric - but...
I'm not that familiar how it truly works - but I figure that the list of timber offered from the manufacturers are a good measure to what's being used. -
@thomthom said:
I figure that the list of timber offered from the manufacturers are a good measure to what's being used.
Makes sense to me. You make what people want to buy.
Do wish we'd hear from others!
Others?
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This is an excellent source for 'wood' info http://www.woodforgood.com/
This is a list of UK standard Sawn Softwood http://www.woodforgood.com/building-sustainably/timber-in-construction/sizes-and-tables/table-1-sizes-of-softwood-sawn-timber/
This is the UK related tolerance http://www.woodforgood.com/building-sustainably/timber-in-construction/sizes-and-tables/table-2-tolerance-classes-for-structural-timber-sizes/
This is the UK softwood planed on the width table http://www.woodforgood.com/building-sustainably/timber-in-construction/sizes-and-tables/table-3-target-sizes-for-timber-machined-on-the-width/
These are the UK softwood lengths http://www.woodforgood.com/building-sustainably/timber-in-construction/sizes-and-tables/table-4-softwood-lengths/
Timber which is machined on all four faces and has rounded arrises was first imported into the UK from North America surfaced to Canadian Lumber Standards (CLS) or American Lumber Standards (ALS). Surfaced softwood is now readily available from UK and Nordic sources in addition to Canada and the USA.
These sizes are shown in Table 5. http://www.woodforgood.com/building-sustainably/timber-in-construction/sizes-and-tables/table-5-alscls-sizes-for-softwood/ -
@thomthom said:
In Norway we have used inches and feet for timber, up til rather recently. But we're not supposedly all metric - but...
I'm not that familiar how it truly works - but I figure that the list of timber offered from the manufacturers are a good measure to what's being used.i did a job in oslo a couple of years ago and everything was definitely metric..
on a side note, there were too many complications/costs with me bringing my entire crew over so i hired local carpenters.. they all showed up on the first day with one of these
and one of these:
iirc, the 2x4s were ordered as 50x100s but the actual size was the same as in the US.. pressure treated wood that was around 1 9/16 x 3 9/16...
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@unknownuser said:
I remember when I went to the UK, people where very puzzled by these rulers. They refused to belive they could be of practical use. "But it bends and can't possibly be straight!"
@unknownuser said:
Is this kind of saw an unusual sight?
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both of those are very unusual sights on a framing job.. (and i'm willing to bet you'd get laughed off the site if you showed up with one of those folding rulers
)
i was there to build a moderate sized vert ramp for a competition which needs around 600 2x6s cut to 94 1/2.. imagine doing that with a hand saw? (and that's not including the thousands of other cuts.. radius, plywood rips, etc..)i ended up buying 3 power saws for the crew to use (which are about 3x more expensive than here)..
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Don't know who you met... but I've been in the UK forever and from the late 1960s I've used folding wooden rulers like this with inches on one side and cm/mm on the other... Very useful doing surveys of smaller dimensions, you can also fold its end at 90 degrees and reach it up up to measure smaller horizontal dims beyond your reach etc... No ones survey box is complete without one...
PS: the saw is a labelled 20" one NOT 50cm/500mm etc
PPS: Although the UK went metric years ago I am still bi-dimensional - I will often say to a carpenter that the piece of '4 by 2' should be 3m long etc [=100x50/3m], or the bearer will need to be around 4 long, 50 thick and about 6" deep ! = 4m/50x150mm:?
It's also complicated by the fact that in the UK older people are Imperial, younger ones learnt cm/m, the building industry is mm/m with architects works mostly in mm so I'll dimension something as 4000 [no units] but say it's 4m !, conversely land-surveyors use m - so they'll say it's 50 means 50m when I'm thinking 50mm... but layman is expecting 50cm (~20") !!!
Not to mention that most UK door-leaves readily available 'off-the-shelf' from a builder's merchant are described in metric but are really still imperial e.g. a 762mm door is actually a 2'6" door - this is because there is so much old housing stock where the door-leaves were/are in imperial sizes that house builders still use them in their new work - although most architects now specify metric doors in new commercial work [made to special order] even then it's confusing - a nominal 900mm wise door-set fits in a hole that is 4nr 215mm bricks [or 440mm concrete blocks] wide with 10mm joints so with the extra joint that's actually 910mm, the standard metric leaf is 826mm wide so with say ~2mm tolerance/gap at each side that's a 830mm hole needed for the door-leaf, so 910-830=80mm that's left over for the two frames/linings - luckily the standard timber linings are ~32/35mm each so that leaves ~5/8mm tolerance per side to pack/adjust the frame as masonry is only accurate to +/-10mm !!!
Also we always measure/sign UK road distances in miles/yards [ironically our only 'land-neighbour' Ireland went metric a while ago and now use km, but for along time they had kms on signs in the countryside but kept miles on signs in Dublin - both signed without units after them leading to some confusion] - we also have UK speedometers in both mph/kph but all speed-limit signs are in mpg.
We often think of our own weight in stones (1st=14lbs) and always buy beer in pints/halves - and even though petrol/gas' is now sold by the litre [~£1.10/l !!!!!], most people still talk of the 'mpg' for their cars' consumption [=miles per gallon]. -
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Technologists or people that have never worked in a trade, or on a job site invariably get caught up in the precision of a line, that has no thickness, that only a computer can generate. In the old days the width of pencil line on a scaled drawing could in reality be 1/2" thick depending on the scale of the drawing.
Now the question! Does anyone really care if the wall you are drawing is really 4"wide or 3.5"wide?
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@tig said:
PS: the saw is a labelled 20" one NOT 50cm/500mm etc
Look closely. In much smaller letters it's 500mm.
And thank you for the helpful tables.
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Can someone enlighten me re the British tolerances?
Is British lumber really (nominal +/- tolerance) or do manufacturers stick to (nominal - tolerance)?
Here, for example, 3/4 inch plywood is permitted 1/32 variation. Our 3/4 plywood is always 23/32 thick.
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