Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion
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Hi WB,
Yes I agree LO in its new form has some potential. I think the problem that it now faces is that many users that looked at it originally have given up on it and are now inclined to NOT give it a second look. Possibly a a mistake as it deserves a second chance.
Mike
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I find it difficult to pursue LO as a tool to prepare construction documents when Google's stated position is not to compete with CAD applications that are used for that kind of work. Can't tell you how many times in the past I've pushed the envelope, only to give up an application because my use of it was not supported by its developers, or the market place. I still have stuff on my system running inside virtual machines that is supported only through my programing efforts. I am hoping to retire before being forced to abandon some of these programs, and faced with learning new software along with the task of managing file conversion:)
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Layout is just a dead weight; i am sorry to have to say this, because i think the idea has great potential, but it is just too clumsy, slow and frustrating to use in any real world situation, even just as a presentation tool with no 3D links to sketchup.
I have found nothing that in theory matches it, or at least the idea behind it, but it sadly just does not do the business.
I use the page layout tools in another app, and import any sketchup stuff i need as 2D dwg exports.i think layout needs to incorporate good dimensioning, and also needs to import dwg as vectors. That way it could be used as a cd tool for any app that could export dwg, and mix and match su models with it all.
Sadly this is not the way google seems to want to take it...Anyway, i'm done with it.
cheers
rabbit -
@rabbit said:
...slow and frustrating to use in any real world situation, even just as a presentation tool with no 3D links to sketchup.
With due respect for your opinion (and to be honest,I mostly use LO to be ble to answer questions in this forum since "professionally" I havebn't really needed it yet) and though even the presentational tools could be improved (with additional features), the 3D link to the embedded skethup model does exist and is one of the most powerful features of LO in presentation mode IMO.
It may certainly lack a couple of features (dimensioning being one of the most frequently demanded one) and I myself have a couple of "favourite feature requests" (both for presentation mode and pdf output) duely filed at the development team...
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@gaieus said:
It may certainly lack a couple of features (dimensioning being one of the most frequently demanded one) and I myself have a couple of "favourite feature requests" (both for presentation mode and pdf output) duely filed at the development team...
Something LO badly needs is the ability to tile sheets with a standard printer. For example if you have an A4 printer but a particular drawing is at a scale larger than will fit on an A4 sheet, there is no simple way of specifying that you want the drawing tiled over say two pages of printed output.
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I believe that LO is OK in most situations, one exception being Architectural or Engineering Drawings in the manner that they are used as construction documents (especially as part of a legally binding construction contract). Even in that situation, it is not impossible, only time consuming.
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Well, for construction documents you wouldn't start with an A4 printer anyway, would you? Yes, I do know what you mean however there are always acceptable workarounds (like "printing" into a pdf file or actually exporting pdf to be printed later).
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I was one of those people who didn't care for Layout when it first came out, but lately I've found it very useful. In fact, recently I had a SU model presentation that was 4' long and Layout was the only program I had that could handle it. But I've never tried to create CDs with SU or Layout, as my CAD program is so much easier and efficient at that. I am able to import SU models directly into my CAD program to generate drawings - so, SU does aid in creating CDs.
Honestly, I'm somewhat mystified everytime this comes up (creating CDs with SU and Layout). Why would anyone want to use SU or Layout to create Construction Documents, when that is neither program's intended purpose? And, should Google add full CAD capabilities to SU, I doubt we would have an easy-to-use and affordable program any more. -
Hi Daniel,
What CADD program do you use to import SU models into for ConDocs?
Regards,
WB -
DataCAD 12. I import it and then have DataCAD generate 2D elevation drawings. It can take a few minutes, but still quicker than recreating them from scratch, and cleaner than importing a dwg file from SU.
I would be surprised if you couldn't do this with other CAD programs, as well. (anyone else care to chime in on that?)
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Daniel, Currently, I design and build my models with a Cad application then Dxf them to SU for visualization and presentation. The original model is assembled from blocks that translate as SU components. All changes to blocks are via the Cad application, that are then individually Dxf's to SU (minimizes redo work to the block/component in SU). In my case, the elevations are complete before the model is ported.
Have you ever used SU's scenes to create 2d elevations (parallel projection, aligned view) 2 Dxf for use in your Cad program? What are your pro and cons on this? Thanks.
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My workflow is slightly different. We start with a plan, either in CAD or sketched out, and then I usually do the model. I have in the past imported the CAD plan into SU, but I found there was too much clean-up (especially if the plan was drawn by others), so it's quicker to start modeling from scratch. The majority of my models are just the exterior, anyway. From the model, I create the CAD elevations.
I have in the past created orthogonal views and then exported dwg files, and then imported them into DataCAD, but I found there was always a lot of clean-up to do. Any line touched or crossed by another line would be broken. On a railing with vertical pickets, for instance, the line for the top rail would be broken at each picket, so I would have a series of short lines instead of one long line.
But with the latest version of DataCAD I can import the model directly into SU. It comes in as a wire frame. I set the view in DataCAD, tell it to perform a hidden line removal and to save the image in a separate layer, and then I have a 2D elevation without broken lines. All I have to do is change the colors of the lines to match our office standards. This is much quicker than drawing them from scratch or cleaning up a dwg file, and I much rather spend the time modeling with SU.
I can also export a DataCAD file as a SU model, but haven't found a use for that, yet (I suppose if I wanted to import a CAD plan or other drawing into SU, that is how I would do it, now). -
I got pretty excited with LO beta and tried to make it work, I struggled with it for many projects then stoped when my support tickets when unanswered. The release version is more stable but when I saw it still lacked dimensioning I just gave up on it. I would instantly embrace it for shop drawings and simple plans if it could dimension since I am still doing quite a bit of design in SU. For now it just has really limited use in my work world
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I've been using Layout for woodworking plans lately and although there are a few things I wish it had related to text handling, I think it works fine. I place dimensions in SketchUp and create callouts and other text in LO. One thing that I found is that I end up with dimensions at 6 pt. in SketchUp. They are almost impossible for me to read on my screen in SU but work out just fine in LO and in the exported PDF.
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Dave, I am very interested in exploring the new possibilities in LayOut. You are right! Its best to accept what Layout does not offer and get on with what it does.
Mike
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Mike, it could be that because I'm not familiar with other programs such as Illustrator that are designed for doing presentation documents and the like, I don't find the limitations of Layout to be all that limiting. I see a huge benefit in having the SketchUp model dynamically linked to the document. That has been a big bonus.
Last Novemeber I did a plan in SketchUp for a small cabinet or bedside table. The client chose to use Illustrator or something for the document. I created scenes in SU and sent the file. They exported JPGs for use in the document. There were several revisions to the model which I got into SketchUp but the scenes didn't get replaced in the document and proofing didn't catch the errors before it got out. The plan was finally updated yesterday.
Last week I delivered a workbench plan to the same client but I did the entire thing in Layout. Again, there were several rounds of revisions to model but they were all incorporated in the PDF this time. If there are any erors, at least there's consistency between the model and the plan. Both of them are to be offered for sale as a package by the client.
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@dave r said:
I've been using Layout for woodworking plans lately and although there are a few things I wish it had related to text handling, I think it works fine. I place dimensions in SketchUp and create callouts and other text in LO. One thing that I found is that I end up with dimensions at 6 pt. in SketchUp. They are almost impossible for me to read on my screen in SU but work out just fine in LO and in the exported PDF.
Dave,
Great point about the font, I have found that setting the font to inches is even more predictable/consistent.
I recently did kitchen cabinetry & vanity elevations this way @ 1/2" = 1'.
My SU dimension font was set to 3"....I exported out of layout to .pdf.....looked great.C
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Hi everyone
As an answer to WBARCH wish
Being retired and doing woodworking as a hobby here is an example of what I obtain using Sketchup and Layout and exporting to PDF
http://cid-ef5ebd0cbc32b77f.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Plans%20SU%20format%20PDF/Table%20refectoire.pdfPlease note that I am not an expert of Sketchup neither of Layout
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Hi Bert,
I couldn't seem to get your PDF file to download so I can see it. Any chance you could just do image exports from the Layout pages and post those as attachements?
Thank you.
Dave
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Bert,
I managed to open your link to the pdf file, (you have to click the download button at the top left). It looks good Bert, you satisfactorily achieved showing all aspects of the table. It conveys all the pertinent info, it's good enough to build from.Best,
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