Wow Joe, they are stunning mate!!!!

Nice lighting and even nicer camera angle!

@marked001 said:

You've got the right project, Richard. They didn't mind paying for the fish tank, but unfortunately, no one could come up with a convenient way to access it and clean it since it couldn't be reached from above and then they lost interest. A few things were bounced around, even some kind of hologram?? but ultimately, this is what was decided on.

I just got a bunch of pics of this job and its getting very close and its pretty damn spot on to the design (for once). I'll share them when its more complete.

I rather like the decision made there, very effective! Look forward to seeing some shots of the finished space!

Stunning mate! 3 objects only, thats freakin awesome!

What happened to the fish tank? Or have I got the wrong project?

@utiler said:

Cheers for the overview, Rich. Might have to look at what InDesign can do for my work. So many bloody programs from renderers, image editors, work processors... so days I just want to pick up a pen!

Mate, you can then imagine things this end, doing a LOT of marketing, print, website stuff on top of that! My mind these days seems in total overload. But truthfully Indesign took a lot of time away from all that as SO much can be done so easily.

Mate, if you want even the most basic insight into how styles could work in LayOut, open up WORD and start assigning text / paragraph or object styles - doing this in WORD is not at all intuitive but will give you some idea of it's power. You may recall from the PPB days, I then did all my design in WORD. Layout certainly changed this but only on the ability to stretch to size, or assign layers, otherwise it was a step backwards.

Oh and BTW - get Indesign, you will never again write a document in WORD again, and then wonder what shite you've been dealing with for the last 10 years! Admittedly, there will be a bit of a learning curve - 10-15 minutes, about the same time it takes to put a table in a word doc.

@utiler said:

So with InDeisgn, Rich you don't keep all your similar elements on a particular layer?

Mate Indesign is like Layout on some serious steroids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Layers

Provide as they should be for display level hierarchy or control of on / off significance.

Object Styles

Can be applied to any object: Rectangle / circle / text box / imported PDF / imported image / imported DWG / imported EPS. You can control stroke style / fill style / fill gradient / bevel / feather style / shadow cast / internal glow / external glow / transparency etc.

Changes made to any object styles are global, ie: Any object assigned a style will update to any changes made to the style.

Paragraph Styles

Can be applied independent of object styles. Can be applied to a text box or individual paragraph. You can control font, font size, font weight, font spacing, italics slant, font width scale / height scale, kerning, tracking, leading, baseline shift, paragraph spacing / indents, justification, tabs, numbers or bulleting.

Changes made to any paragraph styles are global, ie: Any text assigned a style will update to any changes made to the style.

Swatch Colours

Swatches in much the same way layout can save swatches, though you can change the swatch to update the instances they are assigned. EG; if I assigned a background fill to bedrooms of say orange, if I edit the swatch to green, any objects painted with the orange swatch will be updated to green. This will effect anything irrespective of it's object or paragraph style.

Swatches control the colours of strokes (lines), fills, gradients (where assigned via swatches), text and text outlines.

BTW you can edit the names of Object Styles, Paragraph Styles and Swatches to ensure their assignments are understood.

BTW again, if I drag in a PDF to a page, I can also control the layers of the inserted PDF on page via a right context click.

Mate, I limit the work I do in Layout for these reasons, I can achieve SO MUCH more in Indesign. And I haven't even touched on tables and assignment of cell styles. I use Layout to it's limits then output a PDF. In Indesign I just click update to the PDF so the workflow is one click off seamless.

Oh and BTW again again, none of these settings or workflows are difficult OR demanded. Anyone could still work in the 1990's way that layout is set up to now!

@utiler said:

If you were to work in a CAD program again (heaven forbid!! ) would you not want to group these elements together?

Mate I haven't used AutoCad since version 2.1, but NO, if it pushed me to that workaround it fails.

@utiler said:

Maybe rather than a modifier key, we need to actually have it as a preferences setting...?

I still like the idea of a modifier, as even for you there maybe instances you don't want to drag to layer, and the issues then again exaggerated.

That's now looking sharp mate!

@utiler said:

I would have expected most functions requiring a particular style would be put on the same layer, Rich. Think Text, linework, symbols, fills, etc. Isn't all your body text on the same layer so you can isolate it if you want? If so, the layer hierarchy should be set in your template and never change [or very rarely].

Mate I totally understand WHY you have adopted this workflow, but that is because you've been forced to by Layout's inherent lack of "Object Style Management". If you have ever used InDesign you would be very aware of what such a feature can add, and it doesn't rely on layer assignment. You can assign multiple attributes to a "style" and all objects assigned this "style" will be updated with a change in that style. Similarly the swatch feature there means that colours themselves can be updated globally which will update the style.

So in the want for a better workflow you have chosen to work around this lack of functionality, to permit everything assigned a layer to be selected and updated. This however must result in a layer stack that represents say just a line's weight instead of it's actual function - say "site boundary".

So for me yes, right now the function of the sample tool dragging to the same layer makes sense to your workflow, but may have significant issues to others who don't work that way, and hense why a modifier (eg: shift+) would be warranted. And the bigger picture that the Trembling guys address the overwhelming need for a style management and assignment system. Even MS WORD has such a feature.

@utiler said:

The same goes for Scrapbook for that matter. God knows why you can apply a layer to something in your scrapbook file them when it comes into your drawing space it doesn't bring that info with it???

TOTALLY with you there mate!

@utiler said:

My screen space surrounding the page is filled with things I want to use for that particular series of drawings. [see attached] How easy would it be if all of those things [text, lines, fills, yarda, yarda] could bring their layer properties with them when sampled?

Again this is a nice idea, though how much better would be if an object dragged from the scrapbook maintained it's layer assignment, whilst it's assigned style was updated to any modification made to that style in the current document.

So in the end mate, there is a bigger world out there that function could be sourced from to reduce some rather time consuming workarounds.

Wow, they've come out rather sweet I reckon!! Not what I've normally seen from RenderIN!

I do wonder if there is any trick you could employ to avoid so much uplighting from your ceiling fixed lights. As example, in maxwell I would approach this with an emitter on the fitting itself and somewhat dulled or "non contributing" to Global Illumination and then place a "hidden emitter" under or around the light that fulfills the light's more expected GI response!

I'm totally with you on this one mate! I'm forever forced to use dimensions and a calculator to determine areas.

Mate I certainly vote for such functionality - I'd imagine easily achieved as "more options" in the accuracy dropdown on the dimension dialogue! I do all my floor planning direct in layout and are forever manually adjusting dimension values.

I agree with most your suggestions Andrew, but sampling pulling objects to the same layer, HMMMM? I think this could be problematic for most. Certainly if you style by layer, which I imagine is your workflow - then this makes sense. But I wouldn't make this a default, I'd probably add a modifier. As in the case the user doesn't want to change layers they are then forced to drag back, and if this drags items to lower layers; items could fall behind fills or solid objects and the issue compounded!

WOW mate! You must be so proud to see your design as particularly sculptural coming to life.

Seriously well done! I hope you update the thread as they get all the detailed stuff installed!!

Like Rich suggests, I'd have figured the bottom section all floor, only your mention of seating nudged my eyes to pick it out.

@utiler said:

Must be the beer we drink Rich that creates such a steady hand!

Or the excess of it causing a limit to "straight" lines only!!! And none of that crappy U.S. beer!

@utiler said:

I agree with the others Dave, your sketches are real neat!!! I wish I was that proficient.....

I tend to sketch in my A5 day planner in airport lounges or in my study at night....

Christ, If I found that page lying in the street I'd have wondered if it fell from my own notebook! Uncanny resemblance to my own hand!

Mate, that is inspirational sketch work!!!

Started with SU just after buying my first PC. Back in the day of V3 (2002/2003?). Actually only a month or so ago I came across the original CD, surprised I had a CD in the house let alone my first version of SU!!

I can recall the very reasons for buy sketchup in the first place. I'd just bought my PC and landed a nice unit project, invested in Autocad light but couldn't get my head around it fast enough to start on this project so found I could do everything in Microsoft WORD - site plans, floor plans, elevations the works. Then the council came back and asked for a perspective!! Though I'd done a lot of these by hand in earlier years I figured I search to see if there was a simple software solution! BAM sketchup!

After what would have only been a few hours I managed to knock out at least some very simple images to supply council.

Here is that first ever work from my first time with SU and one of the original elevations produced with WORD.