Yeah, let's all kiss and Mac up

Oh wait a minute, let me just boot up windows to run "reconciliation.exe" as I can't find a Mac version.

And FYI, building the PC took me just over 2 hours and I enjoyed it. They call it a "LEGO build" for that reason. No problems with anything.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to any of this!

Each has its pros and cons. My gripes with Apple really aren't based on the price as I keep saying.

Buit if a Mac Vs PC war makes everyone happy, then please, go ahead

Pilou thanks for reminding me about Verve! Great fun, I will share some paintings!

OK. You have £1500 to spend. No refurbs or second hand. You must have a full warranty on all parts.

Buy an iMac. Buy a PC. Build a PC.

Click render.

Which one will be quicker?

Jeff I give in. I am going to buy a mac.

Then burn it.

FYI it was actually Rich who changed the thread title.

Don't take it so personally man, I've been using Apple for years and finally gave up. My money my choice. Simples.

They don't call it the PC Master Race for nothing you know?

@mike lucey said:

Oli,
Maybe the solution could be to have a self built PC workhorse that can be upgraded and repaired quickly when the occasion arises and a half decent Mac for occasional use / fun?

That's kinda what I'm doing. I still keep my iMac in my bedroom for web browsing, it's been retired. I will use it until it stops working and then I will ceremoniously burn it. You are all welcome to bring some petrol. Might even film myself throwing it out the window to annoy the Apple fanboys on youtube. It would make me very happy.

@gareth said:

give Oli a break.....he's given up smoking

.....and with the amount of money he's saved he deserves a treat....!!!

Yeah come on guys, I nearly picked up a packet of cigarettes!

Do you have different plugins between 2014 and 2015? A conflict?

Honestly it's not just a matter of money. There is no way anyone can say the computers are good value anyway. I just don't see it, especially with UK prices.

I can't just repair an Apple if anything goes wrong, I have spent weeks without computers while they are being fixed. Do you not see how impacting this is? I'm tired of the whole brand and their attitude. I just want a machine that works where I don't have to boot up other operating systems to use the software I want. I am very happy with my machine, it works perfectly for my needs.

I can't tell you how much I don't need just a single screen Jeff....it's pointless looking at an iMac because I need 4 screens. This is not just a rendering PC. Try trading on a Mac. I am not booting windows to open trading software which is sensitive enough as it is. There are many many many reasons why I will not be buying mac again.

Not much point me justifying it because it seems like you are only concerned about price and that's just 1% of the argument. It's like you are glazing over everything else I've written Jeff. I think you may have your Apple Goggles on; like Beer Goggles but more hipster.

Sorry for being so anti Apple, but if it makes you happy Jeff I'm still using my iMac for browsing the net in my bedroom! I do get the appeal but the price is ludicrous and I've spent way too many hours sat at the genius bar or waiting for my computers to be fixed.

@charevir56 said:

Oil, could you tell how are you dealing with the software platform, specially Sketchup and Thea, do you have to buy another license or pay for upgrade?

Thanks

I'm buying a new SU, I have always used the free SU with dozens of plugins so never had to use the pro. Trimble also changed their rules on using the free version for commercial work. I was a die hard SU8 user, not as bad as Pilou though.

My render licenses are all transferable. Podium, Twilight and Thea that is, I don't know about other programs.

@jeff hammond said:

that's not true.. the new mac pro is the most user-serviceable mac to date.. ifixit gives it an 8/10..
..you can change the ram, ssd, cpu, gpu (though it's yet to be seen what type of upgrades will become available)..

That's what I'm talking about. You can only upgrade it when they say you can, and even then, the components will be outdated and 2-3 times what they're worth. The mac pro is already outdated when you buy it, I am well aware you can service them.

And how much does it cost?

£2499 for the 4 core? (Why do they even call this a pro?)

£3299 for the 6 core?

OK, now add a bit more memory, a screen, a mouse, Apple Care.....**and hey presto you are at £8000!!!!**The price of a second hand BMW.

Sorry but impossible to justify that. My PC setup with 4 screens and more power, more speed cost me over 5 times less. Any problems, I can get it fixed same day under warranty.

I do not see any sense in buying Apple. £8000!!!!! I only added the basics! Even if you get the standard screen it's £6000!

Yeah OSX is pretty stable but sounds like you haven't tried a later version of Windows. It's very slick and quick. Negligible difference between mac and windows in terms of usability IMO. Apple appears "friendlier" to me. Pretty sexy looking machine too, I appreciate what they do....but that's about it. They became so successful through their excellent marketing of mobile devices; not their computers.

I believe Apple are going to fade out of desktops and laptops, pretty much concentrating all their efforts on mobile iOS it seems. My iMac feels like an oversized iPhone now anyway.

Even if a mac pro was half the price I still wouldn't get one. Doesn't even come with a keyboard! Or screen, or mouse, or anything for that matter. And it's already outdated by the time you buy it. Plus you have to see a "genius" to fix it.

I suppose this could go on forever. When it comes down to processing power, a PC will destroy Apple. Shame it took me so long to see it!

OK. Not had chance yet but I will do.

Is there a Thea test scene anywhere?

Do you know when I said a Raspberry Pi is probably more powerful than my old iMac. Well, it is!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/02/02/raspberry_pi_model_2/

SCAN computers. Appointed to HRH don't you know.

Yes they were well priced, EXTREMELY knowledgeable and had all the parts in stock. I built it in an afternoon with my brother. The sales guy even went on the Thea website to check specs so I got the most bang for my budget.They know their stuff.

It basically worked out cheaper than any imac and probably twice as powerful. And I have 4 screens. And I can update. And I don't have to deal with Apple when it goes wrong. It's a no-brainer. Apple just can not compete with processing power.

Go into SCAN and look at the prices of the components.....Apple basically sell old components for 2-3 times what they are worth. They are that cheeky.

I have seen game developers use a similar process for low poly buildings/office blocks. They add another layer between the light component and the building skin...like curtains/desk/chairs/people etc. The effect can be quite convincing and purely 2D.

@richard said:

120GB SSD if this is your working drive is going to send you crazy mate! My biggest wish now is I had gone bigger!

But that's the beauty of a PC. If I ever need more, just take it out and bang another in! I'm not concerned, I probably won't even use half that SSD anyway.

Thanks numerobis, I'll get my brother to look into that. (He's the IT geek)

Thanks guys. Yeah the SSD is purely to load software, it's almost instant. I don't have a huge amount of software anyway. Just rendering and trading stuff really.

I have a 1TB hard drive for normal storage and an external network 1TB hard drive vault to save more stuff.

Did you know you can get 1TB pen drives now?!!!!! Crazy! They are very expensive though, but wow!

I'm completely done with Apple. I can't tell you how many pen drives and hard drives I've ruined by plugging them into my iMac. It has the tendency to corrupt the drives so they never work again!

It can be something as simple as forgetting to eject the drive before you unplug it. I lost 4 years worth of textures and architecture work that I had amassed onto a WD hard drive....even if I plug it into a windows PC it won't recognise the drive. Gonna have to take the hard drive out the case and plug it directly into the board with some recovery software. The data is definitely on the disc itself, I just can't see it.

Yes, what I was suggesting is.....it doesn't need to be 2 point or parallel to merge....Photoshop recognises where the images overlap and free transforms/skews them to merge into each other automatically.

As panoramas are normally made in a landscape fashion, you may need to rotate your images before processing them. Basically trick photoshop into thinking it's a landscape when it's actually a building. Hope this makes sense.

The above panoramas were made up of around 5-7 single images.

@maccabist said:

However, after all its not a real camera. to oli : "precise" - i ment that by taking photos panoramically in "2 point perspective" mode it will be acurate to "glue" them together in photoshop (photos from 1/3 , 2/3 , 3/3 height of the building). it will not be accurate in "perspective" mode. by tilt+Shift of course.

-Keep your camera at a fixed position. Set height to around 1500mm. This is close to a tripod.
-Use the "look around" tool to get your first shot at the base of the building
-Using the look around tool again, look up slightly and make another render. Just don't look up too much, make sure the images would overlap.
-Again, using look around, take another render looking up even higher. The renders should overlap slightly. It could take between 3 and 4 renders to get the whole height of the building.

-Using a dedicated panorama stitching app (lots of free ones) you can stitch these images together as long as they overlap. You do not need to use parallel projection or 2 point. Photoshop has a built-in Photomerge plugin that automatically joins together perspective images.

After you have done this, free transform the whole image to remove the vertical convergence.

I use this Photoshop Photomerge process for taking simple panoramas like below. I use PTGui Pro for more complex spherical stitching. There are many to choose from and the process is simple when you get used to it. The process is exactly the same for vertical images.