Started to code in the dual pitch truss, the top chords, king post and bottom chord are there just need to add some webs:
Just an FYI, my previous post in Nov. had a sign switched in the last step of the derivation for Span 1, corrected in the plugin to a minus sign and everything is comes out perfect.
Yes, I should probably roll a new rev. even when I make minor changes. The new menu item is really a partial update since I haven't yet add all of the code behind it so I didn't think it worth a new revision number. However, the bug fixes I just made are significant. I will be more strict about this in the future.
Date stamp on revision is now 02.17.2016
Version 1.3.1 - 02.17.2016
I've also addressed a number of bugs for rafter roofs when metric units are being used. I highly recommend everyone download the latest version, especially if you are using metric units.
I could add in an advanced option to model in the plates but for now it would be non-engineered and simply for representational purposes. If I have requests from other users for this sort of thing I will consider it.
Interesting. Right off the batt I'm going to say this is well outside the scope of what I'm trying to do, but I think we all know that.
However, if someone was motivated enough I could see a progam that could generate all of the curves necessary to generate the hull shape/surface and framework given a specific set of inputs/parameters. It all boils down to mathematical model that is then translated into geometry. I wouldn't be surprised if there already isn't a plugin out there that is able to generate hull shapes.
Not something I'm interested in or about to tackle at the moment. It would be challenging, much more so since you are dealing with splines and curved surfaces.
You make two very good points:
The goal is to also make some global settings that can be configured so that even more control is given to the user regarding the level of detail and other configurable items. If the interface is too tedious to use the plugin is doomed.
The plugin will only appeal to a very limited audience. Most people could care less about how rafters or trusses generate the overall geometry of their roof, even my wife thinks I'm quite crazy, she doesn't get the fascination I have with trusses.
This plugin needs to make hard things simple, such as creating complex roof geometry that would otherwise take an experienced SU user many minutes or an hour or two to complete. Hopefully I can achieve this with what I am doing, and to some degree I think I already have. I don't think there is any SU user that can generate a rectangular hip roof fully framed out as fast as I can using the plugin, and the same goes for any of the trussed or rafter roofs.
This is why I would really like to complete the dutch gable rafter roof. There is a lot going on there (again see previous post with images) but if the plugin can generate all of that instantly then there is definitely some value in that.
@ JQL
Thank-you for posting a number of well thought out and interesting questions. I will do my best to answer them:
Other than plywood and OSB, I have not found it very beneficial to apply a texture to the wood of the trusses or rafters, part of this is probably due to the mapping problems I encounter with the alignment of the textures to the members. Pre UV mapping does sound interesting and useful, I have not given it much thought until now. I've mostly been concerned with just getting the basic geometry correct and that has been a challenge in and of itself. Lately I've been using a very basic color scheme when creating demonstration models with the plugin (see some previous) posts. One thing I would like to do for sure, is set up some global settings that allows one to optionally assign specific items to certain layers. I also need to do some more research into the pre UV mapping to see if it is something I can do, honestly I don't know enough about it to talk intelligently on the subject, I will do some further reading on pre UV mapping.
My thinking on beveling and chamfering for realism is that usually these entities will be viewed at such a distance that even if the members were beveled for realism you would barely notice. I have tried rendering some of my models in Thea Renderer and they come out surprising well. I just don't think the extra complexity added to the model is warranted in this regard.
I have give some thought to this. Typically the plates, joist hangers, hurricane ties etc... are a function of the loads and hence engineering. To correctly draw all of these would require a fully engineered design. You will notice that the Truss Designer (separate software integrated with the plugin) does actually compute the plate sizes for a fink truss. Given enough time and money (incentive/motivation) I could probably program the engineering portion of the plugin so that it sends the data back from the Truss Designer and then the plugin updates the truss assembly and draws in the the correct plates and even hurricane ties. The other issue with drawing all the plates is that the model will start to get rather heavy, but maybe this is a non-issue for certain applications.
On the topic of joist and rafter hangers I've thought about using pre-configured components that can be brought into the model and automatically positioned (ie. Simpson Strong-Tie hangers). I haven't had the time to look into this just yet but I agree that it would be very cool and be a big plus for presentation. Again this is not something I have had a chance to really look into but my thinking is that one could select an appropriate hanger type from a drop down list and it would auto insert it into the model at all the correct locations and orientations.
I've been looking at a number of garage designs recently that employ an attic or storage truss. I'm finding that a lot of them tend to use raised heels to allow for more head room while having a lower roof pitch (ie. 6/12 - 8/12). I'm thinking about adding in raised heels for the attic truss type in the plugin.
A quick mock up would look something like this:
View model here:
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u208d64e3-ddcf-4923-8dfb-d507185fa663
Ignore the unbalance in the panel lengths, in practice and in the plugin they will be properly balanced.
What I do have a question on is the use of a top chord splice as shown in the above image so that the overhangs do not have to be as deep as the top chord in the non-triangulated region of the truss. I have never seen a splice used on a attic truss with a raised heel, I don't see why it can't be done but it is always nice to have a confirmation that someone else is doing this sort of thing in practice.
@jql said:
Medeek, I've been following this thread from time to time. It's an impressive plugin you've been pulling together here! Congratulations!
Thank-you for your interest and the vote of confidence. I'm still plugging away at it every free moment I get, it is incredibly addictive and still amazes me what one can do with a little code and a well written API.
With the tail bearing trusses I'm still waiting on more responses from architects, engineers and contractors so I can finalize the gable end truss for that specific truss type.
It looks like I was featured in SketchUcation's latest newsletter, thank-you for that. I will say I need more feedback though, a lot of what drives this is the requests from users or potential users of the plugin.
I haven't had the time to get back into the complex hip roof framing stuff but I would like to seriously attack that again as soon as possible.
Version 1.3.1 - 02.15.2016
Triple Fink @ 70' w/ 2x6 chords
Quad Fink @ 80' w/ 2x6 chords
View model here:
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u2b57ed6d-9f1f-47c4-9e09-5489940c94b2
Alternatively one could balloon frame the wall at the gable ends and attach a ledger for the ceiling:
View model here:
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=ub1aa30d4-a7c3-4320-8bc4-03fd128b5913
In my opinion a partially sloping wall gets complicated to frame. From an engineering standpoint the balloon framed wall is also the strongest option.
This method of framing the gable end wall may make the most sense. I'm trying to form a consensus though on the best way to frame this so that users of the plugin are presented with adequate options that cover 90% or better of design situations they will come across in practice.
For those of you who are particularly interested in the the tail bearing truss please weigh in and let me know which option(s) works best for you.
I am currently investigating the best method to construct the gable end wall and truss with a tail bearing truss. Show below are 3 different possible configurations:
1.) Structural Outlookers (Vertical)
2.) Non-Structural Outlookers (Horizontal)
3.) Structural Outlookers (Horizontal)
This is just one possible method of framing the gable end wall into the gable truss with a 2x4 outlooker. Option 3 shown above is somewhat of a question, not sure how that heel joint would come together.
View the model here to analyze the different configurations:
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u75c42456-c8e5-4002-bc93-779860f8dc61
Version 1.3.0 - 02.14.2016
View model here:
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u704b9d92-bd38-4895-b71b-19691f31cca7
I have shown 3 configurations of the same roof to display the differences with non-structural vs. structural outlookers (horz. & vert.). I am not exactly sure how to treat the gable end truss for this truss type since I have never dealt with this type of truss before. Specifically, where structural outlookers are employed. Any sample outputs showing the gable end truss with a dropped top chord for a tail bearing truss would be very helpful.
Theoretically, one could forego the gable end trusses altogether and just balloon frame up to the roof diaphragm but I would like to provide the option for gable end trusses if it is a typical method used in real construction of this type of roof.
Version 1.2.9 - 02.12.2015
A typical application might be a clerestory roof with a upper shed roof and lower shed roof with a ledger board:
View model here:
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u0b2dd5bc-605d-467c-a6bb-449bb54e76e6
Started the manual as a MS Word document however that doesn't work so well for hyperlinks. Starting over with an html manual page:
http://design.medeek.com/support/trusspluginmanual/mainpage.html
http://design.medeek.com/support/trusspluginmanual/commontruss.html
Couple of pages up, only about 25 more to go...
Example of a porch roof using the hip roof and shed roof primitives. I'm wondering if it might not be worthwhile to add in a feature to create this type of combination roof automatically. Shed Roof w/ ledger & hip ends.
View updated model here:
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=uf979b67e-2755-4981-9bfc-06d20b64d313
For some reason there are two copies on Extension Warehouse, you're right. I'm looking into it.
I've ran into this structural question before, where you have a stairway next to an exterior wall. My first thought is to call out a balloon framed wall up to the 2nd story top plate(s) but then that makes the rim board and double top plate of the first story discontinuous. What is the preferred solution or how have you seen this done in similar circumstances.
Here is a quick mock up in SketchUp to better explain what the two options are:
You can also view and download the 3D SketchUp model here:
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=uf979b67e-2755-4981-9bfc-06d20b64d313
Testing the real world application of the Medeek Truss Plugin. This model combines a double fink truss, raised heel fink truss, monopitch truss and shed roof with ledger. While creating the shed roof special attention to the birdsmouth cut was required to ensure that the fascia height of the rafters and trusses lined up. Also note the use of the raised heel type truss on the upper roof portion. Structural outlookers were specified for all gable overhangs.
5:12 pitch roofs with rafters and trusses 24" o/c. I did not apply a level cut to the rafter overhangs but that would probably be a given. Span of the double fink is 48 feet with 2x6 top and bottom chords.
View models here:
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u98040448-af54-4d79-af30-a3aefca9b941
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=ud8f4c186-1836-4d16-928a-2ba8c10c99a9
If anyone has some real world applications using the plugin that they are willing to share I would be very interested to see how it is being used and it would also give me some direction for further development and improvements.
