@alan fraser said:
Brodie, my apologies for bad grammar; I meant the chances against intelligent life evolving, not chances of it evolving. It is, of course far less likely than winning the lottery (which is what I meant). Nevertheless the numbers still stand.
Of course there are more factors involved in creating conditions for life than a planet's distance from its sun. When did I say there weren't? It was Spence's Mormon quote that seemed to set such great store in the 'godlike' precision of earth's orbit.
It was precisely in countering that claim...that the earth is somehow a 'chosen planet' that I gave the figures indicating how many other such planets there may be in the universe.
How can that possibly by irrelevant, as you claim? Inconvenient, maybe; irrelevant, certainly not. You appear to be rather fond of declaring things to be irrelevant without any obvious justification.
I'm not really interested in what statistics you have seen that counteract my figures. My figures are the most recent available and the ones used by the world's leading cosmologists.
@unknownuser said:
You're the one that pointed out the similarities, not me. You seem to be suggesting that the evolution of the eyes is completely different so the fact that they ended up so similar argues against a common designer. I don't see how. A theist who doesn't believe in macro evolution would simply suggest that the human and the octopus currently have similar systems which perform similar functions and how you want to construct a theoretical evolutionary tree to support a preconceived theory is irrelevant.
There we go with the irrelevant again.
I didn't point out the similarities, I pointed out the superiority, in many ways, of the octopus eye to our own
So you originally claimed that this supposed similarity (which I didn't point out) could be proof of a common designer. Now you're saying that their dissimilarity could also be proof of a common designer? Is there any condition that wouldn't be proof of a common designer...or is that presupposition built-in?
The fact that you claim that a theist can argue a common designer regardless of the relationship between the two optical systems only goes to prove that theists don't argue at all. They do, indeed, simply claim that God did it....period. That's not an argument.
It's not necessary to construct an evolutionary tree...theoretical or otherwise; close study of the developing young of either species can clearly demonstrate the eye forming as an offshoot of the brain or a hollowing-out of the epidermis.
I'm not sure which preconceived theory you are referring to. If it's evolution itself then that is immeasurably less preconceived than the presupposition of a deity, There is a mountain of utterly conclusive evidence for evolution, there is non whatsoever for the existence of God.
I'm not aware of any serious Christian who would argue against the evolution of a species. Life from nothing is another matter, and even if that were true, I would argue that the step from a single celled organism that evolved from the primordial ooze to male and female is a greater stumbling block to the evolution theory. It is unnecessary, inefficient and too complicated for it to have evolved as the best way to reproduce.
I find it interesting that Dawkins will state categorically that the world was not created by God but will suggest that life may have been seeded here by extraterrestrials (interview in Expelled - no intelligence allowed) or that it had something to do with crystals. That sounds even more far fetched to me.
At the end of the day, there are serious minds on both sides of the issue. There is no proof either way.
