Anti-SketchUp! Snobbery [or Ignorance?]
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Interesting debate . . . . despite the (obvious) genius of Sketchup, Architect's still need to supply clients (and local authorities) 2D plans and with dimensions and text. A Client recently asked us (annoyingly) "can your software do basic plan views? The 3D stuff looks 'too good', and makes it look like the work will be too expensive' my Main Board wont sign this off unless I give them a simple plain plan view that looks cheaper."
We gave them the simple plan view. But SU's has an achilles heel when you try to produce 2D plans with text and hatching to the standard that traditional CAD can.
If you are doing a live presentation for a Client and feeling inferior and downtrodden by the little sketchup logo at the top of your screen . . someone on the old board gave me a link to an app called WinSpy which lets you rename the title bar at the top of the window to whatever you like. So rather than 'model 4 - sketchup' it might say 'model 4 - ZEN CAD' or whatever you like.
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@stuartb said:
an app called WinSpy which lets you rename the title bar at the top of the window to whatever you like. So rather than 'model 4 - sketchup' it might say 'model 4 - ZEN CAD' or whatever you like.
Neat- I think I'll rename it SuperDuperHiTechCommandLineTookMe10YearsJustToGetTheBasicsDownAndIHadToRemortgageMyHouseToBuyItCAD (Version 53.1.2.2.)
p.s. a planning department officer told me a couple of days ago that they prefer elevations without shadows- he said they find them confusing!
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Jackson, you realise they just released version 53.1.2.3 of that last week. Your old files won't open unless you pay for the 'upgrade'!
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@stuartb said:
Jackson, you realise they just released version 53.1.2.3 of that last week. Your old files won't open unless you pay for the 'upgrade'!
Dammit!
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Hello Friends. This is only my 2nd post in this entire forum, but I have been an SU user since V. 2.0. I think it is amazing. I started out as a Traditional hand renderer. I still do that. I generated Persp. by hand for years. I did Autocad, form Z, etc. etc. All too slow, learning curve too steep. I needed a program that I could learn quickly--generate 3Ds quickly, giving my clients multiple views, print out and render over the top. Saves me time. I make more money. I have introduced Sketchup to the College I teach at. It is now in the curriculum. I introduced it into the large organization that I work for (I am an architect for the LDS Church)--it is now S.O.P for a lot of my colleagues! Yeah, we have Max, Z and all the others, but SU is faster and eases the workflow for a lot of us who just hate muddling thru acad. I still use SU in all my work. I am learning Max, only to add another arrow to my quiver so to speak, but I always think about how I can just drop my SU models into max and render from there. I use Podium too. Awesome. Simple does not mean simplistic. Su is a very sophisticated tool--is there stuff that I wish it could do better? yeah. but that is probably cuz I don't pay enuff attention to the forums to find out how other folks have solved my issues. SU is terrific.
(paid for by the Friends of SketchUP)
P: David_H
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Thanks for sharing David! And welcome to this forum! I'm very happy to meet you and am honored by your long standing support!
I look forward to reading more of your ideas and perhaps on ways to improve SketchUp!
Cheers,
- CraigD
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I think fear and ignorance play a big part in the snobbery. I just yesterday sat through a BIM briefing at my firm by some AutoDesk folks. They were introducing our Revit implementation team to the product and concepts, and at one point a designer asked about the file exchange between Sketchup and Revit. The AutoDesk presenter went on to say "why would you want to do your conceptual mass modeling in Sketchup when you can do it in revit and get real time feedback on the model - that is precise and accurate to boot" Well....let's just say they got an earfull about how they didn't know much about skecthup if they didn't think it was accurate, and if they ever get even close to Revit being as intuitive for modeling as sketchup is - they would have a lot more users.
I felt like a proud parent when he stood up for Sketchup like this. This is the same guy that took me a while to convince him to even look at sketchup. I think it is becoming clear that the design software vendors are all a little envious of the ease of use we have come to love!
Bytor
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I think a lot of these Cad guys don't get the fact that in SU you can think so intuitively whereas in Revit or Archicad, you are having to "think" thru so much from the outset.--What kind of walls are they. Archicad and Revit are cool. I am all for BIMMing, as far as that goes, but With SU you can just dive in a draw. I like that.
By the way. ..That's my Dog. .. Phoebe the WonderHound!
P: David_H
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@unknownuser said:
...By the way. ..That's my Dog. .. Phoebe the WonderHound!
Hello Phoebe and hello David. I agree 100% with what you said. I use Revit and SU both and with SU it is almost like you don't have to think about how you are going to create something, you just do.
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Bytor, I went to a similar Autodesk seminar for a Revit Architecture demonstration, the Autodesk sales rep, when asked about SU integration, replied "Sketchup is an amateur product, it is only a complimentary product to the Autodesk vertical product range". I thought that was rather smug considering Autodesk bought Revit from another company. And then he spent half an hour drawing a standing seam zinc roof that could have been drawn in SU much quicker.
Have to say though, I do like Revit. I hope one day SU includes that level of functionality or there is a BIM plugin.
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Call me ignorant, but when I hear fanboy type of comments without proper substantiated motivation I excuse myself and walk away. I don't need that in my life.
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apart from everything you said before, which i agree with, i would add 2 more:
- SU brought back to me the pleasure i felt in the past when drawing with pen and pencil.
- with SU i can actually design in 3D. with all the other apps i worked till last year my concentration had to be on my actions not on the project itself. not anymore.
i eagerly await for SU 7 to see what improvements they will be able to bring us, but i do not think SU should become a do-all app. no need to have a rendering engine if there are so many in the market, paid or free. this is true for a number of features people have been suggesting to google.
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I love "SketchUp 3 but I´ve stopped at "SketchUp 4.
Enough and bright for me.
))
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In college we had an expression...
Shut up and draw!.....It's applicable here. How many people using 3dMAX, 3dVIZ, Maya, Softimage, Autocad can start a 3d model at 9:00 pm for an 8:00 am meeting the next morning and show up with a completed 3d model exterior and interior on the actual aerial photograph with correct north angle so that shadows are correct.....then add to that show up with a laptop with scheme A and B and while at the meeting design Scheme c in front of the clients eyes...and then leave them with a 3d file that they can actually download free software to view.
Sketchup is this and more.
Yea I know there are people who can operate Maya and SoftImage like bats out of Hell but they are few and far between.
Well I'm preaching to the choir here but Sketchup is the software that has liberated me and given me the ability to let my thoughts flow into the computer.
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I wonder if your client's children also use pencils?
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It looks like this topic is still going strong. I've had a few comments passed in relation to the fact that SketchUp had now become a freeware application but nothing derogatory.
I was surprised to see a comment that a Revit salesman belittled SU. I met two real gentlemen at 3D Base Camp that were representing Revit and they had great time for SketchUp.
I think a lot of this 'looking down their nose' attitude by some of the larger CAD companies is simply fear of possible profit loss. SketchUp Pro stared out at $495 and is still $495 but its now also free. The initial price of $495 was rock bottom for such an ingenious piece of software and I for one would have been more than willing to pay much more for it at the time.
I have paid AutoDesk a lot of money in the past, it runs into many 1000s! I stopped upgrading at 14! Its enough for what I want to do with AutoCAD.
I'm sure that their would be no 'looking down their nose' attitude if SketchUp Pro was $1000 plus and their was no free version. It would not be breaking new territory and putting the frighteners on the big guys.
I'm also sure the 'big guys' must be wondering. 'what next?' Could this low cost / free program evolve into something in the near future that would take a larger share of their market! I don't blame them for knocking SketchUp ..... if I were in their shoes I might be taking the same attitude in relation to SketchUp
Mike
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I would also like to toss in my two cents for "Sketchup discrimination" as it were, as I experience it a lot but from more than just the architects - most of the work I do is in the video games sector, doing free mod work and such on my own projects. I have found that Sketchup is very much looked down upon, because it is so cheap and easy to learn. Many times I have been told to simply get "a real modeling" software suite.
Now, granted, they do have a point when they say that SU simply doesn't have most of the features that the other suites have, and I eagerly await plugins or SU7 to address these shortcomings (bone-based animation support, proper exporters, and even simpler than the already amazing texturing process would do wonders). But most of their comments derive from the simple "it's cheap and easy so how can it be good?" line of thinking.
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Im in my final year of my architecture degree and was introduced to sketchup in my frist year, where it was great everyone was using it-
now that im producing work for my final year projects less and less people are using it and i do find a degree of snobbery. My arguement to them is the fact that i can perhaps model in sketchup a hell of a lot quicker than they could in say rhino. I also say that it depends on whatever works for them but i see no need to work hard/spend time on other programs when i can just use SU -
Hahahaha, I have to laugh when I read of the resistance that Unknown and Archi are meeting.
Guys, I've been around for a good few years and have meet all kinds of experts, in many fields. Many of these 'experts' like to totally mystify their expertise with all kinds of 'secrets' and 'tricks of the trade', not willing to share or pass on this information. I imagine it helps them to create a feeling of superiority.
In contrast the true experts that I have met were people that were totally open about their expertise and always willing to share their knowledge and methods. I have also found that they ALL have one thing in common! A true expert does not care about the vehicle used to achieve the required end result. As far as they are concerned the simpler the 'tool' that can be used to achieve this end, all the better.
In other words, true expertise lays in the hands of the expert NOT the tool that is used!SketchUp is a very simple tool to use but to use well does require expert hands. As we know, its now being used the World over by people from very young ages to very old ages. It has allowed many people a means to deliver digital design output from hands that might otherwise never have achieved this.
It truly has become a 'simple digital pencil tool' and what a useful tool it is!
Mike
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@mike lucey said:
A true expert does not care about the vehicle used to achieve the required end result. As far as they are concerned the simpler the 'tool' that can be used to achieve this end, all the better.
Perfectly put!
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