Anti-SketchUp! Snobbery [or Ignorance?]
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@unknownuser said:
...By the way. ..That's my Dog. .. Phoebe the WonderHound!
Hello Phoebe and hello David. I agree 100% with what you said. I use Revit and SU both and with SU it is almost like you don't have to think about how you are going to create something, you just do.
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Bytor, I went to a similar Autodesk seminar for a Revit Architecture demonstration, the Autodesk sales rep, when asked about SU integration, replied "Sketchup is an amateur product, it is only a complimentary product to the Autodesk vertical product range". I thought that was rather smug considering Autodesk bought Revit from another company. And then he spent half an hour drawing a standing seam zinc roof that could have been drawn in SU much quicker.
Have to say though, I do like Revit. I hope one day SU includes that level of functionality or there is a BIM plugin.
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Call me ignorant, but when I hear fanboy type of comments without proper substantiated motivation I excuse myself and walk away. I don't need that in my life.
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apart from everything you said before, which i agree with, i would add 2 more:
- SU brought back to me the pleasure i felt in the past when drawing with pen and pencil.
- with SU i can actually design in 3D. with all the other apps i worked till last year my concentration had to be on my actions not on the project itself. not anymore.
i eagerly await for SU 7 to see what improvements they will be able to bring us, but i do not think SU should become a do-all app. no need to have a rendering engine if there are so many in the market, paid or free. this is true for a number of features people have been suggesting to google.
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I love "SketchUp 3 but I´ve stopped at "SketchUp 4.
Enough and bright for me.
))
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In college we had an expression...
Shut up and draw!.....It's applicable here. How many people using 3dMAX, 3dVIZ, Maya, Softimage, Autocad can start a 3d model at 9:00 pm for an 8:00 am meeting the next morning and show up with a completed 3d model exterior and interior on the actual aerial photograph with correct north angle so that shadows are correct.....then add to that show up with a laptop with scheme A and B and while at the meeting design Scheme c in front of the clients eyes...and then leave them with a 3d file that they can actually download free software to view.
Sketchup is this and more.
Yea I know there are people who can operate Maya and SoftImage like bats out of Hell but they are few and far between.
Well I'm preaching to the choir here but Sketchup is the software that has liberated me and given me the ability to let my thoughts flow into the computer.
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I wonder if your client's children also use pencils?
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It looks like this topic is still going strong. I've had a few comments passed in relation to the fact that SketchUp had now become a freeware application but nothing derogatory.
I was surprised to see a comment that a Revit salesman belittled SU. I met two real gentlemen at 3D Base Camp that were representing Revit and they had great time for SketchUp.
I think a lot of this 'looking down their nose' attitude by some of the larger CAD companies is simply fear of possible profit loss. SketchUp Pro stared out at $495 and is still $495 but its now also free. The initial price of $495 was rock bottom for such an ingenious piece of software and I for one would have been more than willing to pay much more for it at the time.
I have paid AutoDesk a lot of money in the past, it runs into many 1000s! I stopped upgrading at 14! Its enough for what I want to do with AutoCAD.
I'm sure that their would be no 'looking down their nose' attitude if SketchUp Pro was $1000 plus and their was no free version. It would not be breaking new territory and putting the frighteners on the big guys.
I'm also sure the 'big guys' must be wondering. 'what next?' Could this low cost / free program evolve into something in the near future that would take a larger share of their market! I don't blame them for knocking SketchUp ..... if I were in their shoes I might be taking the same attitude in relation to SketchUp
Mike
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I would also like to toss in my two cents for "Sketchup discrimination" as it were, as I experience it a lot but from more than just the architects - most of the work I do is in the video games sector, doing free mod work and such on my own projects. I have found that Sketchup is very much looked down upon, because it is so cheap and easy to learn. Many times I have been told to simply get "a real modeling" software suite.
Now, granted, they do have a point when they say that SU simply doesn't have most of the features that the other suites have, and I eagerly await plugins or SU7 to address these shortcomings (bone-based animation support, proper exporters, and even simpler than the already amazing texturing process would do wonders). But most of their comments derive from the simple "it's cheap and easy so how can it be good?" line of thinking.
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Im in my final year of my architecture degree and was introduced to sketchup in my frist year, where it was great everyone was using it-
now that im producing work for my final year projects less and less people are using it and i do find a degree of snobbery. My arguement to them is the fact that i can perhaps model in sketchup a hell of a lot quicker than they could in say rhino. I also say that it depends on whatever works for them but i see no need to work hard/spend time on other programs when i can just use SU -
Hahahaha, I have to laugh when I read of the resistance that Unknown and Archi are meeting.
Guys, I've been around for a good few years and have meet all kinds of experts, in many fields. Many of these 'experts' like to totally mystify their expertise with all kinds of 'secrets' and 'tricks of the trade', not willing to share or pass on this information. I imagine it helps them to create a feeling of superiority.
In contrast the true experts that I have met were people that were totally open about their expertise and always willing to share their knowledge and methods. I have also found that they ALL have one thing in common! A true expert does not care about the vehicle used to achieve the required end result. As far as they are concerned the simpler the 'tool' that can be used to achieve this end, all the better.
In other words, true expertise lays in the hands of the expert NOT the tool that is used!SketchUp is a very simple tool to use but to use well does require expert hands. As we know, its now being used the World over by people from very young ages to very old ages. It has allowed many people a means to deliver digital design output from hands that might otherwise never have achieved this.
It truly has become a 'simple digital pencil tool' and what a useful tool it is!
Mike
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@mike lucey said:
A true expert does not care about the vehicle used to achieve the required end result. As far as they are concerned the simpler the 'tool' that can be used to achieve this end, all the better.
Perfectly put! -
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Hi all.
The funny thing that now comes to my mind is that none of my clients have ever asked me about the tools that I use. With them the conversation is most often about matters relating to the design. Even the HVAC consultants using their new 3D tools are often very happy to use my simple 3D surface models to check their things without asking how I made them.
Anssi
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@cyberdactyl said:
Twice now in the last month I have run into new clients who, once they saw proposals by my firm were partially done in SU had less than enthusiastic responses. Not that the work was under par, no, they were pleased with the design ideas, it was more that the work was done with that "shareware software" their kids were playing with at school.
@unknownuser said:
I have had this problem too, once I lost a client because of it
Although I think SU is child's play I have watched clients and non-SU-savvy colleagues trying to use it and it would be funny if it wasn't so frustrating. Many don't have a clue how to even navigate around a 3D model- the idea of using the middle mouse button for anything other than scrolling or maybe zooming just seems alien to them.
Kids use Photoshop at school, but do they understand modes, levels, channels, HDRIs? I can hold the same chisel and hammer as a stonemason, he'd produce a masterpiece, I'd produce a misshapen lump. Damn this topic winds me up, lemme at 'em, lemme at 'em!
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The clients aren't the problem it's some of our collegues that we have to convince. They havn't got a clue.
These are stubborn architects that think they know with out even trying to use the software what the program is capable of. I have tried to convinced the office that su is more that just drawing pretty 3d models. Su as Bob says can be incorporated in every phase of the project including CD's. I got this question today- "Is it as acurate as autocad?Can you use to do cd's?"...I just wanted to SCREAM!!!The only reason why I'm complaining is because I know how much more productive our office could be if they would fully embrace and push the software to its limits. Su has breath new life in to those who know its real potential. I'm done trying to convince the doubters of what is clearly obvious to most of us on this forum. Su is practical and fun too!ps. I'm interested in kowing how many offices use SU and how much?
It just appears that everyone is talking about this program in some capacity. I never knew this to be the case about any 3d program until the arrival of SU. Am I being biased?P: lapx
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hi guys, im new here. greetings from the Philippines!
i too, have the same problem...many people are underestimating sketchup.
there was an architect once who visited our office and asked me about my fee as a 3d visualizer...i answered and she nodded (positive response)...but when she knew that i am using sketchup, she was like "what?" ..."my assistant uses 3DMAX and charges same as you do...you should charge less..."i was like "hey, its not the gun you use...its how you shoot your target... and hit"
still i say until now...all the work you do (3dsmax users)....we do in a fraction of the time.
and the results are the same. (well most of the architecture in country consists of basic linear and curved elements, so yeah...sketchup is perfect!) -
Hi,
I have long worked in the planning and realization of pharmaceutical and medical facilities. In the late eighties, our company was established in Autocad. I've seen how long it lasted until the employee has mastered the system. Years later, Autocad 3D was used in the planning. But most of the construction processes are starting with 2D drawings before it can be thought of a 3D visualization. I think this also applies to architectural projects.
I can only speak from my experience in the technical field of plant construction. The process of developing a technical system starts with the product and the necessary equipment to produce it. This applies to mechanical processes, as well as for industrial processes. Planning begins with 2D drawings. And here lies the focus of the CAD and 3D programs and this is where the CAD programs have their base.
And it's just the way, if a company has opted for a software package and its planning processes has focused on will be difficult to convince them to use an other software.
I think the 3D visualization is only a small part in a planning process usually at the end of a complex planning process for a building or an industrial plant or a machine. And many planning steps are not feasible or very difficult with Sketchup.
Therefore, the provider of complete software packages, such as Autodesk, will always have the edge.SketchUp is a great and easy to learn program and it is great to construct and visualize quickly an idea and I love this program. But it only covers a very small part in a planning or construction process.
I use Sketchup as a hobbyist but when I try to visualize a real building or a machine I have to do a small planning process before that means I need at first 2D plans.
For relatively simple projects, this is certainly doable with Sketchup. For complex industrial or Building projects, it is certainly necessary to deal with other 3D or CAD programs. I guess that's why it makes no sense to compare SketchUp with other CAD or other 3D programs.But SketchUp occupied a small niche in the overall spectrum of 3D software for those who want to familiarize themselves relatively quickly in the 3D visualization.
And I do not think that Google has an interest to compete with other 3D programs. Therefore, any user of SketchUp, whether professional or amateur, should make the most of it for themselves.
Charly
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As a cabinetmaker I've gotten nothing but compliments on my SU models, but I still feel the reluctence of my builders and designers to try it. I really think the trauma of learning a CAD program is still with them and it's like "whew, I finally got through this one, I don't need to go through that again!" If only they knew! Also, I know one designer who turned her nose up at it when she viewed some of the models in the warehouse. I really wish they'd split it into two, with one side meeting minimum criteria.
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@cyberdactyl said:
Twice now in the last month I have run into new clients who, once they saw proposals by my firm were partially done in SU had less than enthusiastic responses. Not that the work was under par, no, they were pleased with the design ideas, it was more that the work was done with that "shareware software" their kids were playing with at school.
I explained SU Pro was a powerful application that was easy to learn, but difficult to master, but I still had a strong feeling SU had lost the dazzle it had even a few months ago. My only guess is that it is indeed now so popular everyone sees it as old hat.
Has anyone else had experiences similar to this recently?
P: Cyberdactyl
HI Cyberdactyl :
I'm not a "Professional" Architect, just an average citizen. I've been using Sketchup for quite a while now. And, with it, I can customize furniture, lights, etc.......... So, don't go telling me it's "just some kid's toy". The stuff I create in Sketchup, I import into Turbo Floor Plan 3D (no offense to Sketchup users). Here's a couple of examples.................... garystan
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