SketchUp 2019 release
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Hi Chipp, just downloaded it. I had a play (actually did a short course in 2005 for blender) the UI was nasty. Navigating is very Sketchup now, so no learning curve on that aspect. It think trimble will live to regret the Accountant heavy trajectory that will alienate many users. The cost of SU plus render engine plus plugins,$$$ and for a modeller that cannot handle heavy poly models utilising a single thread. In my opinion this is the biginning of the end for sketchup.
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Chipp, if you are in contact with Blender management try to convince them to deliver even deeper a-la SU mimesis ( on-the-fly dimentions input, material eye dropper+bucket, double click to edit, component concept, etc etc). User base will swell exponentially.
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Part of the problem is, the only pressing need to update (sorry this is not an upgrade) is to maintain the ability to use the latest killer extensions.
Funnily enough, I've actually been dumping a lot of extensions in favour of doing it manually.....
Gonna have a long think today about my sketchup future. Looking more and more like I'm moving on.
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@chippwalters said:
You really need to take a look at Blender 2.8.(...)
I should too. 2.8 looks tasty.
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@pbacot said:
but really they are just hiding it for some reason. Why should I look at the bottom of the page for offerings on a "Buy" page, when originally it was at the top?
Yes, they're clearly hiding it to lure people into their subscription. The name change to classic plus the tiny writing below the three main options... And you can see that people are falling for it by some comments in the forums. I think there are already many users who bought the Pro subscription because they thought this would be the only option now (who don't read the forums). And next year Trimble will tell us, that it has been accepted very well and so many customers have switched to subscription...
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@randy hutniak said:
SU 2019 is out; check the Trimble website.
Subscription based...now at twice the annual Service and Maintenance cost. I guess it was bound to happen.Now I have to purchase it before my 2018 ends so I can 'Train' the students I have. No discount for Accredited Trainers as far as I can tell. I did apply for the Teacher's edition $0.00 and where it asks for the School Name I put Accredited Trainer as per SU website! haha lets see what they say
Although it’s twice the yearly cost for us (if we switch to the new subscription method), it’s actually a lot more accessible for people starting out with SketchUp. An interior designer friend who’s just starting out, has been trying to build up the initial payment of 600 to get started with SketchUp Pro. Now she can start for 240.
Yes she’ll pay more money in the long run, but it’ll be 4 or 5 years before the subscription method ends up being the more expensive option in comparison to 600 + 120 a year...
Yes it’s a pain for the loyal SketchUp users, but everyone seems to miss how this will bring more people into SketchUp!
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@rv1974 said:
Chipp, if you are in contact with Blender management try to convince them to deliver even deeper a-la SU mimesis ( on-the-fly dimentions input, material eye dropper+bucket, double click to edit, component concept, etc etc). User base will swell exponentially.
Some of what you ask for can be implemented with plugins called "addons" in Blender. I've had lengthy discussions with top devs on how to use the knife tool as a line tool (that's what it really is) and how to do Push/Pull. He believes it's imminently doable. In fact there was a PP addon for 2.79 but it got pulled when they switched boolean engines. Blender already has a very robust and intuitive beveling/filleting engine, and Joint-push-pull just works by selecting the polys you want moved and extruding them out (but not in).
You can display on the fly the dimensions of lines, angles, etc. There's a setting for that, but you can't parametrically edit them easily. Once you learn now to Snap when moving, it gets like you are sorta working the SU way.
There's the plugin Archipack now available for 2.8 which makes short work of floorplans, adding windows and doors with accurate dimensions. Haven't yet spent a lot of time with it, but there are some decent tutes out there on it.
The biggest challenge for SU to Blender is you really have to think in a different modeling paradigm. At first, at least for me, it was difficult. But I started to 'get it' and now it's second nature and I'm now even faster than I was in SU-- which I think is saying something for me as I built the whole Alamo reconstruction in a few short months with historical accuracy for Experience Real History: The Alamo. I also created a full Hyperloop user concept for Elon Musk entirely in SU. There was an article about it at Fast Company.
I really like SU's sketchy line renders. I'm working on creating a tutorial to do the same in Blender (see my chippwalters twitter account for preview if you like).
Because Blender renders significantly more polys and much faster than SU, poly count isn't as big a concern unless you're doing game models. There are many types of modeling that can be done: Sculpting (with billions of polys), SubDivision surfaces (with better workflow than SU), and my favorite: non-destructive boolean modeling. I just finished a secret investor project and the non-destructive Boolean workflow saved my butt as it was super easy to go back an change stuff.
Here's a really good example of it (not my video, but sweet none the less!) Check it out. You won't believe how simple the originating shapes are that created this box. Non-destructive modeling in Blender allows you to go back in and change every fillet, wall thickness, opening, pin size, etc in a matter of seconds. Cool beans.
Also I'll share with you a really cool addon our team created lately. There's the free version which works in 2.79 and will be released for 2.8 this week that has most of the features of the PRO. The PRO version allows you to make your own INSERTS (components in SU language) libraries called KPACKS. One of the best things about Blender is it has a far superior boolean engine than SU and realtime crazy fast. KPACKS are now being sold in many Blender stores. You can buy them and use the Free version to insert them. With over 100K Blender users, we hear KPACK authors are doing pretty well. We also help them advert on kit-ops.com
This quick tute shows at the beginning how fast you can populate a scene with INSERTS (just as you can with components) but even better, it cuts windows and doors ALL THE WAY THROUGH WALLS, unlike SU. Check it out:
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Love that new OpenGL stuff in Blender. I hoped for that and some UV editor in this 2019 SU version.
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@genma saotome said:
Which is to say I'm using SU 2016 and have no need / intention of using anything new from Trimble.
...What happens when I have to build a new PC? Maybe this year, certainly before the end of the 2020. I have the installer from 2016... will it install and produce a working copy of SU Make or is this licensing stuff Trimble is talking about right now going to prevent that?
why not use the last Make version 2017?
No license data needed to run SU Make, therefore no product activation contacting the Trimble license server required.
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@nlipovac said:
Love that new OpenGL stuff in Blender. I hoped for that and some UV editor in this 2019 SU version.
It would have been great for SU to have included a nice Ambient Occlusion engine. Something like the AO from Fluid Interactive. I did buy it around Christmas and it's pretty nice.
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I have just started to look at this update stuff that I got, but from what I am reading, I am not sensing a lot of love here. not thrilled at all about the subscription stuff, including the huge jump in $$.
for the different levels. I have to do more homework, but I dunno. It maybe time to . . ya know. . .move on.Feeling a bit down right now. I've been using SU since @last days. I'm not the wizard at it that you guys are, but I didn't need to be. Im going to have to give this some thought. . .
Sketchup...I know it was you..You broke my heart.
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@dave r said:
@ntxdave said:
@david. said:
This release just confirms that the SketchUp team gives little regard to a significant portion of their customer base.
I might be wrong, please correct me if I am, but I do not think anyone from the SketchUp team looks at the comments in this forum.
Yes. You're wrong. SketchUp team members do look at this forum.
And to david, it's unfortunate that you haven't gotten to know the SketchUp team members. If you did, you'd know that your conclusion is as far from the truth as it is possible to get.
I'm referring to the SU team members that are making the business model/development decisions. I'm not referring to members that are just taking orders from above. With that said, I don't buy software to get to know the team. I buy software because I think it provides the appropriate value vs cost. I don't know any of the team members of the other high end application that I have. Somehow, without me knowing them, they perform above and beyond my expectations 95% of the time.
In all honesty, you have confirmation bias. You are so invested in SU that you can't provide an objective opinion about the direction/quality of SU. I can't recall a single objectively negative comment from you regarding SU. Frankly, I feel used by the SU team. I effectively paid them to implement a subscription based business model, dashes, and some bug fixes (most of which never applied to me).
I haven't installed/activated 2019 yet because of the wacky license activation stipulation that I only have 60 days to install/activate 2018 on another PC. My other high end software has a simple 2 PC limit on activation forever. If I need to move my license to a new PC (eg, I have a PC crash or I would like to update to new hardware), then all I need to do is give them a call to deactivate the old key then activate the new key on my new system. I could easily run multiple versions on 2 PC's as long as the hardware supports that. With SU, I have to be very aware of the implications of installing on another PC.
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"Yes. You're wrong. SketchUp team members do look at this forum."
then how did they get it so wrong on what their users want and expect? not just here, but on their own forum, facebook, youtube....
to quote :
"is this an early april fools?"
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@chippwalters said:
The biggest challenge for SU to Blender is you really have to think in a different modeling paradigm. At first, at least for me, it was difficult. But I started to 'get it' and now it's second nature and I'm now even faster than I was in SU-- which I think is saying something for me as I built the whole Alamo reconstruction in a few short months with historical accuracy for Experience Real History: The Alamo. I also created a full Hyperloop user concept for Elon Musk entirely in SU. There was an article about it at Fast Company.
I made the jump to Blender back in 2012 when I was running into a wall trying to get smooth walk-through animations rendered in Sketchup (not to mention poly-count limitations.) I think the one significant update to SU since then was going to 64-bit, everything else has been basically maintenance (for my needs. I don't use Layout. I'm a 20+ year veteran of ACAD, where I've always had control over lineweights and linetypes)
I am so glad I held off renewing my maintenance this year, as it looks like I will be staying with 2018 and older versions for the foreseeable future. I love using Sketchup and am immensely grateful for the plugin developers, but am done with giving Trimble my money.
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According to the features chart of the various 2019 Sketchup versions the only versions that allow extensibility with ruby are Sketchup Pro ($299/year), Studio ($1,999/year), and I can assume Classic ($695).
Am I reading this correctly? Sketchup Shop and their goofy browser based Sketchup Free are not checked off.
This will have an impact on creators of either free or pay plugins which you can read here:
https://forums.sketchup.com/t/version-2019-failed-to-obtain-license/87426/4
I find the hoopla about dashed lines curious. I'm still using Autocad 2000 for my work and it has dozens of linetypes that have been available for over 20 years now.
It seems as though Trimble has for whatever reason decided to kill off the original Sketchup culture including both the free versions and the pay versions and have gone the way of subscriptions and a free version that requires an internet connection.
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Curerntly only the desktop version of SketchUp is capable of utilizing extensions however the team have indicated that they are working on ways to change that for the web-based versions. There are claims by people who don't have facts that this would create a huge cut in sales for commercial extensions because the users of the free version won't be able to buy them. What they fail to take into account are the statistics. The vast majority of Make users don't actually use any extensions and of those who do, most will only use free ones. At least one extension author is keeping track of who is using his extensions and sees this same sort of trend. It's the pro users who are the real customers of the "for pay" extensions.
Anecdotally, I had an e-mail from a guy the other day asking if I knew of an extension to do something. When I told him there is one available he whined because it was $5 and he wouldn't pay for it since he was already using SketchUp Make. If his time had any value at all, he wasted more that $5 of his time telling me he wouldn't pay for an extension and expects one for free.
As for dashed lines, people have been demanding dashed lines for years. Every year it shows up in the feature requests. They fulfill a feature request and everyone complains about it. Can't win for losing!
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Just a thought bubble, might it be a good idea for the Sketchucation executives to consider creating a new forum in sketchucation specialising in transitioning from Sketchup to Blender? This may reinvigorate Sketchucation which has taken a beating since Trimble took over Sketchup. And would be a great help for people transitioning or simply for Skethup users to use the qualities of both programs. It would certainly work for me. Anyway like I said just a though bubble.
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@l i am said:
Just a thought bubble, might it be a good idea for the Sketchucation executives to consider creating a new forum in sketchucation specialising in transitioning from Sketchup to Blender? This may reinvigorate Sketchucation which has taken a beating since Trimble took over Sketchup. And would be a great help for people transitioning or simply for Skethup users to use the qualities of both programs. It would certainly work for me. Anyway like I said just a though bubble.
Rich O'Brien is fluent in Blender, he'd be a good tutor as he comes from SU and understands the issues most SU users have in Blender, I vote he starts the revolution, even I will join.
Hats off and a huge thanks to the plugin authors, they have been keeping SU alive the last few years You know they are listening as a few new importers and poly reducers are on the horizon, too bad we need such tools due to SU's poly limitations.
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So Trimble is expecting plugin developers that have provided free plugins for free such as Fredo to continue to develop and make available for a product that carries a minimum price of $299/year for a subscription and is leaning towards $695 for the classic version.
Of course this will have an impact on the very nature of what created Sketchup and put it on the map. It wasn't as much Google or the original creators but it was in fact those plugin creators that made Sketchup a more usable software. Given the age of Sketchup it is nearing that time where it could quite possibly be eligible for becoming an open source program.
When I created the Barcelona chair which was featured in CatchUp it was created with a free version of Sketchup (Sketchup
and I used Artisan which was a pay add on. What happens to those future young users that may want to have a hand at such creations once they completely eliminate Sketchup 17 and given Trimble's nature the possibility of seeing DMCA challenges for their software all over the internet?People may disagree but it is quite obvious that Trimble has changed the entire makeup of the Sketchup community that took nearly 20 years to form and most of it was through people that did not charge for plugins or their work. Including the times I've uploaded free components until I saw things began to change under Trimble ownership.
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@solo said:
Rich O'Brien is fluent in Blender, he'd be a good tutor as he comes from SU and understands the issues most SU users have in Blender, I vote he starts the revolution, even I will join.
Hats off and a huge thanks to the plugin authors, they have been keeping SU alive the last few years You know they are listening as a few new importers and poly reducers are on the horizon, too bad we need such tools due to SU's poly limitations.
I'm glad to help out how I can. I love the SU community and have many longtime associated and friends here, Pete among them.
I just posted an open letter to Trimble over on their forum which may be of interest to some of you. I hope they consider becoming more transparent with their road map.
https://forums.sketchup.com/t/an-open-letter-to-trimble/87510?u=chippwalters
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