Architectural layer name conventions

pbacot

I think ideas people are offering here are more valuable than the "conventions" that may have been established by institutions or schools. Whether for SU or otherwise, I've looked at some of these and found them onerous for most work. If you HAD to collaborate with a number of work groups and EVERYONE was using the system... it would still be a PITA with so many layers. I felt some of these protocols were sort of nerdy and would only create more work. They are likely based on systems made up when CAD was just being developed and so less relevant now.

utiler

@pbacot said:

I think ideas people are offering here are more valuable than the "conventions" that may have been established by institutions or schools. Whether for SU or otherwise, I've looked at some of these and found them onerous for most work. If you HAD to collaborate with a number of work groups and EVERYONE was using the system... it would still be a PITA with so many layers. I felt some of these protocols were sort of nerdy and would only create more work. They are likely based on systems made up when CAD was just being developed and so less relevant now.

Well said.

juju

@jql said:

Finally I have a layer for render proxies and other render elements that I don't want to show on construction docs.

JQL, two questions:

Which proxy plugin are you using?
Which renderer are you using?

kaas

I use the sfb code with a small description for easy lookup in the Outliner. For instance:
16 foundations
22 inner wall
23 floor
43 floor finish
etc

Within some of these named groups I create sub-groups that need to be separate but I don't bother to add a number. For instance:
31 entrance door

door
frame
etc

Some objects might end up on a custom layer to easily switch between high and low polycount.
It all works fine for me as it creates a nice hierarchy and I can quickly find what I need.

TIG

@kaas said:

I use the sfb code with a small description for easy lookup in the Outliner. For instance:
16 foundations
22 inner wall
23 floor
43 floor finish
etc

Within some of these named groups I create sub-groups that need to be separate but I don't bother to add a number. For instance:
31 entrance door

door

frame
etc

Some objects might end up on a custom layer to easily switch between high and low polycount.
It all works fine for me as it creates a nice hierarchy and I can quickly find what I need.

In a similar way my old office use a mix of CiSfb and AIA...
Your:
22 inner wall
becomes
22-WALL-INTL-0001 [first floor]
and so on...
This satisfies clients who want CiSfB based layering as as optional 'description' is also allowed anyway...

As Nick Sonder says...
KISS

If all you need is twenty or so layers then just use layer names that make sense to you [and any recipients]...

JQL

@juju said:

@jql said:

Finally I have a layer for render proxies and other render elements that I don't want to show on construction docs.

JQL, two questions:

Which proxy plugin are you using?

Which renderer are you using?

I'm using Thea render and though it is able to generate simplified proxy geometry, I use simple boxes and roughly model them to look like the original model when I need to.

I don't do that for most vegetation, boxes are enough, however major trees that need placement I do convert to billboards. Tig's skm tools help on that.

Deanby7

What book are you referring to Sonder?

Deanby7

JQL How do you split geometry across inside and outside layers of the building? Are external doors and windows residing on both internal and external layers?

sonder

@deanby7 said:

What book are you referring to Sonder?

The book Matt Donley and I wrote. It just went on sale.

JQL

@deanby7 said:

JQL How do you split geometry across inside and outside layers of the building? Are external doors and windows residing on both internal and external layers?

Exactly!

I have an hole cutting component in the inside of the building glued to each wall face, and I have another hole cutting component in the façade.

As you got there so fast I'll tell you the following:

Imagine you have a VERY big master plan to develop. And you're also developing the interior of the each house and each floor of the buildings.

How would you manage this extraordinary project?

Masterplan is composed of several buildings and a plot of land. Each volume is a component only composed of outer wall faces and windows (exactly what I have).
Then you export each component into a folder;
You then import a that component into a new file;
You now got a link between the components of both files;
In the new file you start working on the individual building and you create a new component, detached from the first, with only the interior and the oppenings.

What you get is at least 3 files;

Masterplan with terrain and buildings and no interior;
Exterior volume components inside a folder that you don't edit;
Individual building file with building and interior and no terrain.

You can further split this building file and send bathrooms and kitchens to your collaborators, structure to your consultants... etc.

What about that? You can do any project inside sketchup after all!

NOTE: Let me tell you another thing related to your initiall question - You can do all 3D modelling only in layer 0...

Deanby7

Sonder - Sketchup to Layout?

srx

Very good information from JQL. This is the same thing I came to. Sketchup in its simplicity CAN be a serious BIM tool when user know the structure and use components as containers of information, both in and out of the main model. So one make the structure in Outliner. Layers follows that structure to filter even more what is seen on screen.

juju

@deanby7 said:

Sonder - Sketchup to Layout?

SketchUp to LayOut for Architecture

sonder

@jql said:

@deanby7 said:

JQL How do you split geometry across inside and outside layers of the building? Are external doors and windows residing on both internal and external layers?

Exactly!

I have an hole cutting component in the inside of the building glued to each wall face, and I have another hole cutting component in the façade.

As you got there so fast I'll tell you the following:

Imagine you have a VERY big master plan to develop. And you're also developing the interior of the each house and each floor of the buildings.

How would you manage this extraordinary project?

Masterplan is composed of several buildings and a plot of land. Each volume is a component only composed of outer wall faces and windows (exactly what I have).

Then you export each component into a folder;

You then import a that component into a new file;

You now got a link between the components of both files;

In the new file you start working on the individual building and you create a new component, detached from the first, with only the interior and the oppenings.

What you get is at least 3 files;

Masterplan with terrain and buildings and no interior;

Exterior volume components inside a folder that you don't edit;

Individual building file with building and interior and no terrain.

You can further split this building file and send bathrooms and kitchens to your collaborators, structure to your consultants... etc.

What about that? You can do any project inside sketchup after all!

NOTE: Let me tell you another thing related to your initiall question - You can do all 3D modelling only in layer 0...

Excellent JQL! This is exactly what I describe in the book.....the use of multiple models conceived from a master model. You can have a full office working on a single project. It's fast, efficient and much more manageable than trying to create everything from a single model.

JQL

@unknownuser said:

Excellent JQL! This is exactly what I describe in the book.....the use of multiple models conceived from a master model. You can have a full office working on a single project. It's fast, efficient and much more manageable than trying to create everything from a single model.

Thanks Sonder, I'm sorry I didn't read your book, but I've watched your old videos and if that's still the process wich you describe in the book, then there are some differences between our workflows though their fundaments are the same.

For instance:

I never copy paste linework into Layout as that isn't dynamically updateable;
I prefer to setup more scenes, wich makes my setups heavier in what regards to scene management than yours;
I don't split the models as much as you do but probably that's due to the fact that my projects are usually smaller than yours;
I don't rely on 3D details, I always setup classic 2D details inside the 3D model and iterate between 2D detail and 3D model permanently (probably because this is how I'm also trained to think);
I use my 2D sections and layers to control scene depth visibility, and I've seen you using fog;
I don't use scrapbooks as they don't keep layer structure nor insertion point I rather have everything floating around a standard layout page, or copy paste from other models.

Otherwise, I wish I had your book when I started, but then again I've watched the videos and you made me believe... And if I had the book back then, I'd probably be working exactly as you do, and that wouldn't be cool would it?

sonder

Oh, those are some of the old videos from 2011. Shortly after I saved scenes for the Linework so no more copy / paste between the two. The connection is all scene based.

Splitting the model types up probably isn't required for smaller projects, although I use the same system now regardless. What it allows is better control of scenes and sections cuts. Providing that many scenes and section cuts in a single model really becomes cumbersome on a detailed model.

JQL

@unknownuser said:

Oh, those are some of the old videos from 2011. Shortly after I saved scenes for the Linework so no more copy / paste between the two. The connection is all scene based.

That was the main thing I didn't think you were optimizing. It's great that I'm on the same path as you then!

@unknownuser said:

Splitting the model types up probably isn't required for smaller projects, although I use the same system now regardless. What it allows is better control of scenes and sections cuts. Providing that many scenes and section cuts in a single model really becomes cumbersome on a detailed model.

I agree! My projects are usually handled by a single person and they are small, so handling many scenes is doable and I don't have the need to split the model with collaborators.

In projects where collaboration is key I split the model in pieces that make sense to isolate in a single Layout file.

In smaller projects the setup has less refinement as basically I create sections for everything I want to see in the model, sometimes if a single door requires a new section I do it and don't bother exporting it out of the model.

In this kind of models, only specific objects I design are exported and shown isolated, like light fixtures, counters, garbage bins and other street objects... that sort of stuff.

utiler

Great reading guys! I work very similarly to you guys [minimizing layers / high dependency on scenes] but one thing I have never got into is Outliner. I posted about how I thought Layers should work like Outliner so the benefits of both were rolled into one.
http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15%26amp;t=40338

What I do wish is that Scenes would have a simple toggle to allow or restrict 'ALL NEW LAYERS' to be visible or not. I use scenes to only display section cut face also but each time you create a new layer then you have to remember to go back and turn it off in those scenes you only want one element to show....

Actually I'm going to add this to the 2017 wishlist right now!!

JQL

Utiler, if your scene setups are as complex as mine and envolve at least 2 scenes per output drawing, you should really take a look at Jiminy's Layer Panel.

The things it can do for you are the following:

Create a new layer only visible in current scene (it will never turn on on new scenes and will be off on all existing scenes except current);
Group model layers and group sectioncutface layers so you can manage your scenes and project elements visibility very easily.
Control layer colors very fast wich is great for creating a color by layer style where you can clearly read consultants models.
Ability to turn off a layer in Layers pannel and the scene's layers visibility get immediatelly updated, without the need for you to manually update the scene (this is great as it only affects layers, camera, shadows, active cut, etc are being kept as they were).
You can turn off the above ability if you use layers for modelling. Having scenes updating when turning off layers temporarily is a drag, for people who use that kind of workflow (not me)
many more features and a some bugs, but it's a really fine tool for this kind of work.
Of course you should also check Super Section from the extension warehouse - Right click an active section plane, a dialog box pops up prompting you for a name, and a "2D ortho camera scene" is created along with an unique layer active only on that scene (off in existing and new scenes). Both layer and scene are named after your input at the dialog.

pbacot

JF Add Layer plugin is also a simple tool to control just that problem with new layers (it can be used when you add a layer or later for any layer)