Layout: Love it or Loathe it?
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@pbacot said:
Thanks JQL!
I tend to slip away from standards when I can and when I feel I can make a cleaner, clearer document my own way, Have used solid fills for years before SU came along.
Clever of you!
I've worked with a very strict classical architect myself for 5 years, very well known, portuguese, pritzker winner (there are only two of those here in PT). So, since I started my own office, I'm still trying to get rid of the standards he brainwashed in me...
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@jql said:
Thanks Kim,
Forgot the most important thing. Sketchup as conceptual tool is exactly the same as sketchup as construction documentation tool. It works exactly the same way and you never have to change a thing except evolving your ideas and adding detail. LO in perpetually part of that process... CAD breaks it.
A sketchup model evolves. From the existing condition to the finished project, it's work in progress. This sketchup model starts as a very raw boxy/triangulated shape or a prexisting building (wich all my projects tend to be nowadays.)
A sketchup model is for our office a perpetual iteraction between ideas, sharing, discussion, testing, ligthing and perfect material representation (with Thea as you know Kim). It's a permanent record of whatever goes through the mind of everyone envolved in the project.
And as ideas evolve the 3d evolves, it's more than drawing or a physical model. It's more like sculpting. LO documents this sculpting in every stage. It's always in sync and if you use it from the start you know it's this "in sync" with project/model evolution that really matters.
In sync with project concept.
In sync with the model discussed with client.
In sync with project when consultants enter the arena.
In sync with permits stage.
In sync with more consultants and price estimates.
In sync with construction documents and final reports.
In sync with construction itself.
In sync with finished building.As soon as you export to CAD you break sync. As long as you keep working with LO sync is going on. That is what matters!
And this Sketchup model is virtually the best thing we architects can strive for, but most people think CAD is the real deal. They are imho wrong. CAD is the accessory here as it cannot register as many things as a Sketchup model does... it fails at everything but acomplish a standard 2d output.
And as I said before, that standard 2D output is something of the past, nowadays we can have so much more...
A sketchup model at a very early stage has already so much information to it that it opens up amazing possibilities. This is the opposite from a CAD drawing. LO can be set at initial stage and document that initial model in a day. Of course you can export it to CAD but why would you even trouble with that until you the permit stage or construction docs stage?
Nowadays I don't even bother with 2D drawings at a conceptual stage. A model and some Presto Renders and people get their jaws on the table.
A sketchup model at the later stage is a faithful representation of the built project. No 2D asset has that ability. LO can easily enough create the closest 2D possible to that 3D model.
The natural thing is to take 2D out of 3D but do it as seamless as possible and with as much info as possible.
LO is great at doing that. It just sucks working with it...
Excellent post!
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"it sucks working with it"
Exactly, that's just it !
Obviously breaking the chain with tradi-cad is sad & frustrating, but for me less painful than working with LO.
For us here the LO experience is like trying to thread a needle with oven gloves on...
If it ever became as fluid & fast & compatible with the outside world as SU, we'd be very happy, but it is just NOT there.
Maybe the Trimble folks are working on it and LO 4 will be all brand new & perfect ?
Meantime, we are looking at Spaceclaim...Good luck Trimble team.
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@paddyclown said:
Obviously breaking the chain with tradi-cad is sad & frustrating, but for me less painful than working with LO.
That is the only thing I don't agree with you. It's because of the advantages "of breaking the chain with tradi-cad", that we can endure the "sadness & frustration" of working with LO.
@unknownuser said:
For us here the LO experience is like trying to thread a needle with oven gloves on...
If it ever became as fluid & fast & compatible with the outside world as SU, we'd be very happy, but it is just NOT there.I also ALMOST agree with you here. ALMOST is the word. LO it's not there but it's ALMOST there.
@unknownuser said:
Maybe the Trimble folks are working on it and LO 4 will be all brand new & perfect ?
Meantime, we are looking at Spaceclaim...Good luck Trimble team.
That is exactly the danger here. LO advertises itself and promises a lot of things. It can do a lot of things but doesn't plainly fulfil all promises that it advertises itself.
This causes frustration and opens up possibilites for other software companies to claim the space Sketchup created in such a brilliant way.
I've invested a lot in SU+LO combo. More than it's wise for anyone to do with something that he doesn't know if it will pay off. It did in my case but I'm sure my case is not everyone's case nor people have the same availability to dig for what they need until they find a way. LO needs a lot of this. A lot of workaround for some things that should be direct.
So I'm always searching for better ways of doing my stuff. Spaceclaim did cross my mind and will cross many minds as other software will. I can say I'm faithful to SU+LO combo for a lot of reasons, this community included as a reason.
Fortunatelly for LO, Layout has Sketchup behind, and sketchup really has a wide scope of possibilities so it's a software that really fills a lot of purposes.
Fortunatelly for Sketchup, LO exists and is still in development as If it didn't exist some of Sketchup possibilities would be hindered.
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Guys, I'm interested to know how you work with gridlines in architectural work. I've set up a scrapbook file of gridlines for my work which I overlay on the SU scene but ideally I want them in the SU file. Hence the DESPERATE need for linetypes in SU....
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Why don't you try to use 2d tools for line types?
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Because I prefer to work in Vector or Hybrid mode, Pete. [although hybrid is less preferred].
2D tools, as good as they are don't work well scaling linetypes in LO.
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@utiler said:
Guys, I'm interested to know how you work with gridlines in architectural work. I've set up a scrapbook file of gridlines for my work which I overlay on the SU scene but ideally I want them in the SU file. Hence the DESPERATE need for linetypes in SU....
I usually draw the lines in SU, Import them or copy paste them inside LO, place them on the right spot and explode them in LO.
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Hello
Since I use Sketchup I am beginning not realized what layout means ... But now I use it often and am very happy! It is ultimately very good! I use it for presentation interior Renderings.
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Anyone heard from the Layout beta test team after sending info to Marc? I have not heard anything...
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No Chuck, I'm sure he'll get back to you here.
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If they were to let anyone in I don't think you'd be able to say anything to anyone. Unless they don't do NDA's... but I bet they do.
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too bad Trimble doesn't talk in public about the next release. Also, too bad they don't have more update cycles to squash bugs. As a pro user who uses SU & LO every day, I sometime feel a bit let down having to wait 4-6 months before maybe something is fixed (or not). Keeping fingers crossed for next release!
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I think as much as we suggest that layout has its shortcomings, its an amazing tool for, as I've found, a host of work outside of architectural presentation!
That said some of those shortcuts are incredibly limiting.
BTW Chuck, I'll challenge you for the longest list!
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The thing about lists is they tend to get longer when not much is ever removed from them.
And Richard, I'm pretty sure yours is longer, haha...
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@otb designworks said:
The thing about lists is they tend to get longer when not much is ever removed from them.
It is growing! And you are right, at a faster rate than the wish list being ticked.
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@otb designworks said:
The thing about lists is they tend to get longer when not much is ever removed from them.
And therein lies the problem with way too much software development.
"Oooh, we can change the UI to something hideous and impractical! Backburner the bug list for another six months while we work on this!"
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