Changes in 2015

wbarnes05

I noticed the change regarding the Length class a few days ago in the API. What's weird is that the API states that the parent of Length is Object starting in SU 2015. That had me worried as it implies that mathematical operations will no longer work on an instance of Length. However everything continued to work ok in my plugin when running in SU 2015.

I ran a few tests in 2015 and found the following:

length = 4.to_l
4"
length.is_a? Integer
false
length.is_a? Float
true
length.is_a? Length
true
length.class.superclass
Numeric
length.class.ancestors
[Length, Numeric, Comparable, Object, Kernel, BasicObject]

It would appear then that the API is incorrect and should be changed to show that Numeric is the parent class.

kaas

@dan rathbun said:

@kaas said:

I just noticed in one of my plugins that loading a single small skp file (to use as a component definition) seems to take almost 1 second whereas the same code in SU 2014 loads the skp instantly.

Bigger thumbnail = more loading time? (guessing)

I can't imagine. The box.skp testfile I created was just a rectangle with an extrusion.

Still looking for a solution. I tested all kinds of files and the result is always the same: loading a skp file as a component definition takes 2 to 3 times as much in SU2015 compared to SU2014 with the code above.
I tested disabling all plugins. I also tested loading SU2015 skp files (I wanted to rule out it took additional conversion time from SU2014 to SU2015).

Any suggestions / workarounds ?

slbaumgartner

@dan rathbun said:

Bigger thumbnail = more loading time? (guessing)

Seems unlikely to me unless it was programmed really badly. The thumbnail contains nothing that SketchUp needs for loading the file, so the loader should simply skip that part of the file with nearly zero impact on load time. Where a larger thumbnail would have an effect is on save or quit, when SU has to write the thumbnail. I think something else must be afoot, but at this point I have no clue what...

Steve

tt_su

@brighter3d said:

Packing float value into two integers, and passing to double parameter function,
seems no longer works in 64bit SU2015.

passF = Win32API.new(mydll,"PassDouble",["L","L"],"V")

packedF = [rubyFloat].pack("D").unpack("LL")
passF.call(packedF[0],packedF[1])

Any tips?

It's a bit vague - what exactly doesn't work of these calls? Do you see Ruby's packing methods returning different results?
Is the DLL you are calling actually 64bit?
Does the function you are calling actually use ints - or are you using some other type that might be different on 64bit OS?

On a side note - the Win32API has been deprecated for a long time. It has many limitations and is easy to cause crashes with. The recommended now is using Fiddle.

tt_su

@wbarnes05 said:

I noticed the change regarding the Length class a few days ago in the API. What's weird is that the API states that the parent of Length is Object starting in SU 2015. That had me worried as it implies that mathematical operations will no longer work on an instance of Length. However everything continued to work ok in my plugin when running in SU 2015.

I ran a few tests in 2015 and found the following:

length = 4.to_l
> 4"
> length.is_a? Integer
> false
> length.is_a? Float
> true
> length.is_a? Length
> true
> length.class.superclass
> Numeric
> length.class.ancestors
> [Length, Numeric, Comparable, Object, Kernel, BasicObject]

It would appear then that the API is incorrect and should be changed to show that Numeric is the parent class.

The API docs needs updating in general to make the hierarchy more clear. There are many inconsistencies. We have a big todo item to improve the whole developer site. Stay tuned.

@wbarnes05 said:

That had me worried as it implies that mathematical operations will no longer work on an instance of Length. However everything continued to work ok in my plugin when running in SU 2015.
We had to pull some tricky shimming to prevent breaking stuff. I wasn't able to do a 100% compatibility, but I think we have a near 99% use case coverage. Main one is C Extensions doing low level type checks for Floats which used to work, but not any more.

tt_su

@kaas said:

@dan rathbun said:

@kaas said:

I just noticed in one of my plugins that loading a single small skp file (to use as a component definition) seems to take almost 1 second whereas the same code in SU 2014 loads the skp instantly.

Bigger thumbnail = more loading time? (guessing)

I can't imagine. The box.skp testfile I created was just a rectangle with an extrusion.

Well, the simplicity of the model is one thing - but if out thumbnail generating code has become slower writing pixels then the model content doesn't matter...
This is still on our todo list to investigate.

kaas

@tt_su said:

Well, the simplicity of the model is one thing - but if out thumbnail generating code has become slower writing pixels then the model content doesn't matter...
This is still on our todo list to investigate.

just to be sure...My concern is not about writing skp files but about loading them. I don't see why it should be thumbnail issue.

driven

@kaas said:

I just noticed in one of my plugins that loading a single small skp file (to use as a component definition) seems to take almost 1 second whereas the same code in SU 2014 loads the skp instantly.

I ran a variation of your script in v13 and v15 on my mac...

t = Time.now
f = Sketchup.find_support_file('candle.skp', 'Components')
d = Sketchup.active_model.definitions.load f
puts (Time.now - t) 
#  all in different sessions of SU
# v13 => 0.146086 , 0.037117, 0.022029
# v15 => 0.033036, 0.046043,  0.013811

test skp, not complex...
john

Dan Rathbun

I was just guessing. The component browser DOES use the thumbnail if it is not set to display "List".

There used to be some time issues with thumbnails getting regenerated in the Component Browser.
Er.. or was that the Scene thumbnails ? It all blurs together.

Brighter3D

@unknownuser said:

t's a bit vague - what exactly doesn't work of these calls? Do you see Ruby's packing methods returning different results?
Is the DLL you are calling actually 64bit?
Does the function you are calling actually use ints - or are you using some other type that might be different on 64bit OS?

Yes dll is 64bit, I was passing double value as a pair of two ints. On c++ side it was double parameter, and call was passF.call(packedF[0],packedF[1]) on ruby side.

@unknownuser said:

On a side note - the Win32API has been deprecated for a long time. It has many limitations and is easy to cause crashes with. The recommended now is using Fiddle.

That solves my problem, it does work now - thank you!
It is a pity that there is no fiddle on SU < 2014 (with old ruby),
and I need to use ancient Win32API.so method for backward compatibility.

Dan Rathbun

You can use DL which replaced Win32API.

https://github.com/DanRathbun/sketchup-ruby186-stdlib-extension/releases

Brighter3D

@unknownuser said:

You can use DL which replaced Win32API.

I still try to support SU 6 and 7...

Dan Rathbun

@brighter3d said:

I still try to support SU 6 and 7...

I don't.

Too many unfixed bugs, and they distro'd with Ruby 1.8.0 initial release, which is like 20 years old. (I wouldn't help anyone with 7 unless they'd replaced the Ruby DLL with a newer one, as I explained how to do in the "Ruby Resources" topic.)

Next year I'd say I will drop support for v8 and v2013, and be done with the old headaches that Ruby 1.8.x has, such as no unicode string support, etc.

Brighter3D

Maybe you are right...
For people doing renderings 2015 is first professional version (thanks to 64bit and possibility to use whole memory).
From the other side v8 is last true free version (according to the license)...

Do you know any recent statistics on SU versions usage?

Dan Rathbun

@brighter3d said:

Do you know any recent statistics on SU versions usage?

I've never heard Google or Trimble release any official numbers.

Some plugin authors have collected data on what versions are running their plugin(s) but it's not global.

Perhaps the SCF Plugin Store has data ?

thomthom

@brighter3d said:

Do you know any recent statistics on SU versions usage?

SU6 and SU7 is very low. I wouldn't be too worried about trying to keep support for these versions in new releases. It's like trying to make a website for IE6 and 7 these days...

There are some users still on SU8 - though it appear SU2013 users migrate faster. Not sure why that is. Maybe it's the Google => Trimble thing...

Personally I don't aim to support anything older than SU2014 any more - due to Ruby 2.0, standard lib and SU2014+ improvements. If my new releases will work on older it will be cause I didn't need to use the stdlib or any of the new SU2014+ features.

kaas

@driven said:

I ran a variation of your script in v13 and v15 on my mac...

t = Time.now
> f = Sketchup.find_support_file('candle.skp', 'Components')
> d = Sketchup.active_model.definitions.load f
> puts (Time.now - t) 
> #  all in different sessions of SU
> # v13 => 0.146086 , 0.037117, 0.022029
> # v15 => 0.033036, 0.046043,  0.013811

john

Thanks for looking into it. I tried your code on win32 and it loads the skp instantly. Great...but, plugins aren't installed in a sub-directory of the SketchUp installation directory anymore. Isn't it bad practice to put resources for a plugin in SketchUps installation directory instead of together with the code in the plugin directory?

tt_su

DefinitionList.load Performance Tests:

Test snippet:

<span class="syntaxdefault">skp </span><span class="syntaxkeyword">=</span><span class="syntaxdefault"> Sketchup</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">.</span><span class="syntaxdefault">find_support_file</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">(</span><span class="syntaxstring">'Car Sedan.skp'</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">,</span><span class="syntaxdefault"> </span><span class="syntaxstring">'Components/Components Sampler'</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">)<br /></span><span class="syntaxdefault">puts </span><span class="syntaxstring">"DefinitionList.load Timing Tests"<br /></span><span class="syntaxdefault">puts </span><span class="syntaxstring">"> SketchUp Version; #{Sketchup.version}"<br /></span><span class="syntaxdefault">total </span><span class="syntaxkeyword">=</span><span class="syntaxdefault"> 0.0<br />iterations </span><span class="syntaxkeyword">=</span><span class="syntaxdefault"> 10<br />iterations</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">.</span><span class="syntaxdefault">times </span><span class="syntaxkeyword">{</span><span class="syntaxdefault"> </span><span class="syntaxkeyword">|</span><span class="syntaxdefault">i</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">|<br /></span><span class="syntaxdefault">  GC</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">.</span><span class="syntaxdefault">start<br />  start_time </span><span class="syntaxkeyword">=</span><span class="syntaxdefault"> Time</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">.</span><span class="syntaxdefault">now<br />  definition </span><span class="syntaxkeyword">=</span><span class="syntaxdefault"> Sketchup</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">.</span><span class="syntaxdefault">active_model</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">.</span><span class="syntaxdefault">definitions</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">.</span><span class="syntaxdefault">load</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">(</span><span class="syntaxdefault">skp</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">)<br /></span><span class="syntaxdefault">  elapsed </span><span class="syntaxkeyword">=</span><span class="syntaxdefault"> Time</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">.</span><span class="syntaxdefault">now </span><span class="syntaxkeyword">-</span><span class="syntaxdefault"> start_time<br />  total </span><span class="syntaxkeyword">+=</span><span class="syntaxdefault"> elapsed<br />  puts </span><span class="syntaxstring">"> #{elapsed}; #{elapsed}"<br /></span><span class="syntaxdefault">  Sketchup</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">.</span><span class="syntaxdefault">active_model</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">.</span><span class="syntaxdefault">start_operation</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">(</span><span class="syntaxstring">"Remove Definition"</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">)<br /></span><span class="syntaxdefault">  definition</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">.</span><span class="syntaxdefault">entities</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">.</span><span class="syntaxdefault">clear</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">!<br /></span><span class="syntaxdefault">  Sketchup</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">.</span><span class="syntaxdefault">active_model</span><span class="syntaxkeyword">.</span><span class="syntaxdefault">commit_operation<br /></span><span class="syntaxkeyword">}<br /></span><span class="syntaxdefault">puts </span><span class="syntaxstring">"> Average; #{total / iterations.to_f}"<br /></span><span class="syntaxcomment"># require File.join(ENV['HOME'] || ENV['HOMEPATH'], 'Desktop', 'definition_list_load_test.rb')<br />&nbsp;</span><span class="syntaxdefault"></span>

DefinitionList.load Timing Tests
> SketchUp Version; 15.0.9350
> 0.023006; 0.023006
> 0.037007; 0.037007
> 0.036002; 0.036002
> 0.034998; 0.034998
> 0.035001; 0.035001
> 0.035001; 0.035001
> 0.036999; 0.036999
> 0.035999; 0.035999
> 0.035002; 0.035002
> 0.035997; 0.035997
> Average; 0.034501199999999996

DefinitionList.load Timing Tests
> SketchUp Version; 14.1.1282
> 0.033001; 0.033001
> 0.034001; 0.034001
> 0.032002; 0.032002
> 0.034003; 0.034003
> 0.032001; 0.032001
> 0.033003; 0.033003
> 0.032002; 0.032002
> 0.031001; 0.031001
> 0.030007; 0.030007
> 0.032006; 0.032006
> Average; 0.032302700000000004

DefinitionList.load Timing Tests
> SketchUp Version; 13.0.4812
> 0.038; 0.038
> 0.033; 0.033
> 0.033; 0.033
> 0.03; 0.03
> 0.03; 0.03
> 0.03; 0.03
> 0.03; 0.03
> 0.03; 0.03
> 0.03; 0.03
> 0.03; 0.03
> Average; 0.0314

DefinitionList.load Timing Tests
> SketchUp Version; 8.0.16846
> 0.054; 0.054
> 0.04; 0.04
> 0.04; 0.04
> 0.045; 0.045
> 0.04; 0.04
> 0.04; 0.04
> 0.04; 0.04
> 0.04; 0.04
> 0.041; 0.041
> 0.04; 0.04
> Average; 0.042

DefinitionList.load Timing Tests
> SketchUp Version; 7.1.6860
> 0.035; 0.035
> 0.048; 0.048
> 0.043; 0.043
> 0.042; 0.042
> 0.043; 0.043
> 0.046; 0.046
> 0.043; 0.043
> 0.043; 0.043
> 0.042; 0.042
> 0.043; 0.043
> Average; 0.0428

I'm not seeing any performance regression - looks rather consistent on this end.. I'm not sure why you are seeing a difference on your system.

jiminy-billy-bob

@brighter3d said:

Maybe you are right...
For people doing renderings 2015 is first professional version (thanks to 64bit and possibility to use whole memory).
From the other side v8 is last true free version (according to the license)...

Do you know any recent statistics on SU versions usage?

I have some data : http://thomashauchecorne.com/layers/analytics.php
But it's only about Layers Panel users (around 500 unique daily users)

kaas

@tt_su said:

I'm not seeing any performance regression - looks rather consistent on this end.. I'm not sure why you are seeing a difference on your system.

Hi Thom, thanks for taking time to look at my code-problem.

I don't see big differences as well if I load components from the SketchUp Components sub-folder (see my post, two posts above your post).

Have you tried my original code (loading from root of C OR loading from the Sketchup plugins folder) and looked at the differences?

I tested your code and here are the results:

SketchUp Version: 15.0.9350
0.06: 0.06
0.04: 0.04
0.05: 0.05
0.04: 0.04
0.040001: 0.040001
0.04: 0.04
0.05: 0.05
0.04: 0.04
0.04: 0.04
0.04: 0.04
Average: 0.0440001

SketchUp Version: 14.1.1282
0.02: 0.02
0.02: 0.02
0.02: 0.02
0.02: 0.02
0.02: 0.02
0.02: 0.02
0.02: 0.02
0.02: 0.02
0.02: 0.02
0.02: 0.02
Average: 0.019999999999999997