New Pattern Fill feature in Layout

Msketcher · 23 May 2013, 12:38

Has anyone played around with the new pattern fill feature in Layout? I'm trying to find the documentation on how it's intended to be used. I've got a couple questions and I'm wondering if anyone has figured this out yet.

Seems like patterns can only be applied to shaped created in Layout, Unless you convert a Sketchup model to Vector and explode it(So Layout recognizes it as a shape). But then you lose the ability to update the model.
How do you delete a pattern? I can change it to a new pattern but can't figure out how to delete it all together. EDIT - I think I figured it out. You click on "Shape Style" and toggle the "Pattern" button off.

I guess that's it. Any other tricks I should know about?

Frederik · 23 May 2013, 12:58

Have you checked A closer look at LayOut ...?

sfto1 · 23 May 2013, 14:48

@frederik said:

Have you checked A closer look at LayOut ...?

In the above link, all I can see is what they added, but not how to use. Are there any video tutorials for the new LO features?

Or any videos explaining new features?

ArCAD-UK · 23 May 2013, 15:30

I've played with it and I think it should save me a fortune in coloured ink and help me better differentiate areas. Upgrade cost covered.

Krisidious · 23 May 2013, 15:50

Would this help? arail1

http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=341461#p341461

arail1 · 23 May 2013, 15:53

@arcad-uk said:

I've played with it and I think it should save me a fortune in coloured ink and help me better differentiate areas. Upgrade cost covered.

My version of AutoCAD LT (2010) doesn't have backgrounds for hatches. The workaround (which never really works) is to have a solid color hatch for the background and then a pattern hatch on top. But you have to fight with AC to keep the order correct. PITA!

Maybe this will warm me to the upgrade. Although I do wish this functionality existed on the SketchUp side of the fence rather than the Layout side.

edit: I'm not warmed. Am I correct in thinking that this only works for shapes drawn in Layout? You can't apply patterns to the SkechUp model? What the ....!?

ArCAD-UK · 23 May 2013, 16:10

The patterns are alpha PNG files. You can do the same thing in SU through materials application. The slight disappointment depending on what you want to do is the LO patterns aren't vector fills which could then be easily exported to DWG. As an addition to LO the patterns do help with different textures which you may want to vary from the SU model.

jolran · 24 May 2013, 06:39

@unknownuser said:

Would this help? arail1

viewtopic.php?p=341461#p341461

Should I continue development further you think ?

@unknownuser said:

The patterns are alpha PNG files. You can do the same thing in SU through materials application

Yes, noticed that to. This tool already excisted in TIG's 2dtools ?

(I'll try to stay objective since I'm developping a plugin for hatching).

PROS:
I think if one stay inside the Sketchup-Layout domain, and can accept the fact that one cannot alter the linethickness in hatches. I do think it is a very nice new feauture of Layout. It may do for most people, and I thinking of dropping my plugindevelopment(OT).

CONS:
If I'm not misstaken one have to draw the fill-shapes oneself. It would be helpful if hatching was a separate tool detecting boundaries(like a face) but that might be to much to ask for. (one can explode stuff, but.... )

Given that, it is still much faster to texture all faces(from a TIG sectioncutface for ex) in Sketchup and import that into Layout instead of drawing new shapes and pattern them.

Just my point of view.. I'm happy Layout getting some attention in this update.

Krisidious · 24 May 2013, 06:50

@unknownuser said:

The patterns are alpha PNG files. You can do the same thing in SU through materials application

True, however you can't change to vector and keep the hatch. And personally I don't want to hand build a hatch and then have to modify it once I get to Layout.

Gjenio · 24 May 2013, 08:55

@jolran said:

If I'm not misstaken one have to draw the fill-shapes oneself. It would be helpful if hatching was a separate tool detecting boundaries(like a face) but that might be to much to ask for. (one can explode stuff, but.... )

Given that, it is still much faster to texture all faces(from a TIG sectioncutface for ex) in Sketchup and import that into Layout instead of drawing new shapes and pattern them.

Just my point of view.. I'm happy Layout getting some attention in this update.

That´s also my point of view and that of many architects out here.
It´s an incredible waste of time drawing point by boint the hatch over the walls in LO. Let´s just think about how much time it takes for a complex Plan, I don´t even dare think if in the same Plan constant changes occur... Nonsense!

TIG Sectioncutface still do the job better and quicker!

Krisidious · 24 May 2013, 09:07

@gjenio said:

That´s also my point of view and that of many architects out here.
It´s an incredible waste of time drawing point by boint the hatch over the walls in LO. Let´s just think about how much time it takes for a complex Plan, I don´t even dare think if in the same Plan constant changes occur... Nonsense!

TIG Sectioncutface still do the job better and quicker!

you don't have to draw point to point... like other parts of SU and Layout, I have found that if you believe there should be a method for something there normally is.

When needing to hatch in Layout, import or "insert" your model, then convert it to vector, explode the group of vectored lines. use the "Glue" tool to merge lines into one continuous line, then use the pattern tool to hatch the area. It's not a fill tool with ray tracing, but it works.

Otherwise your method of hatching in SU leaves you with only Raster Rendering in Layout.

jolran · 24 May 2013, 09:55

I did try the exploding/gluing method like you mentioned and thought it took longer then actually drawing new shapes on top of sketchup geometry, sometimes. And it's also a destructive method.

But nevertheless it's a good solution too. And I guess what works best depends on what kind of geometry one is dealing with.

LO 2013 is pretty new. I'm sure after some time there will some nice new workflow ideas
that will improve things.

Krisidious · 24 May 2013, 10:01

@jolran said:

I did try the exploding/gluing method like you mentioned and thought it took longer then actually drawing new shapes on top of sketchup geometry, sometimes. And it's also a destructive method.

But nevertheless it's a good solution too. And I guess what works best depends on what kind of geometry one is dealing with.

LO 2013 is pretty new. I'm sure after some time there will some nice new workflow ideas
that will improve things.

It is and I find it quicker to draw new ones as well... Whatsmore I can keep hatching on a separate layer than linework which is also convenient.

This as well as the dimension style is a little convoluted.

arail1 · 24 May 2013, 11:17

@jolran said:

Should I continue development further you think ?

I have not had time to download the plugin, maybe over the weekend. But, in general, yes you should continue development. In an area like this where none of the available solutions are real solutions, any new ideas would be welcome.

None of the workarounds would be applicable to me, much as they're appreciated. If you're looking to produce one finished set of drawings then exploding and rebuilding, etc. might work but I sit between the designers and the fabricators. My drawings can easily go through half a dozen major revisions in a day. That's why I'm always forced to go back to AutoCAD from SketchUp. Annotations and hatches in SketchUp are way too primitive to have a place in my workflow.

That's why I'm learning Rhino - Rhino has a modeling environment that's similar to SketchUp but with real annotations and hatches. The hatching and annotation aren't yet at the level of functionality that AutoCAD has achieved but it's much further along than SketchUp.

kaas · 24 May 2013, 12:25

@jolran said:

Should I continue development further you think ?

Please do. For me as an architect real hatches in SketchUp are way better than those in LayOut:

they can be exported to third party programs
SU line-hatches in LayOut are much more crisp lines (no jaggies)
if I draw a section in SU and apply real hatches in SU those two are re-used multiple times in LayOut: once for the section 1:100 and fragments of the same section multiple times as details scale 1:10

Doing the hatches in LayOut is a no-go for me because of nr 3) If I would have to make changes I would have to do them on multiple parts in LayOut which would increase the risks of forgetting something / making errors etc.

Greetings

Max

edit: quote-code went wrong

jolran · 24 May 2013, 18:51

Point taken, I'll continue development then

It may delay though, working on some other stuff right now.

Thanks for showing interest.

/Joel

Krisidious · 24 May 2013, 19:02

SU line-hatches in LayOut are much more crisp lines (no jaggies)

New Layout Hatch does not have "Jaggies", The old Raster Imports of SU models do.

kaas · 24 May 2013, 20:24

@jolran said:

Point taken, I'll continue development then

Absolutely wonderful. Highly appreciated! The process of hatching 2d sections of buildings would take a fraction of time with a plugin like the one you are developing (doing it by hand at the moment). The screenshot http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=323&t=38637&start=270#p365946 you released some time ago already made me drool

greetings, Max

Msketcher · 27 May 2013, 20:40

I guess I'm just missing the point of the pattern/hatching tool in Layout, if you can only use it on shapes created in Layout. If you wanted to hatch a model that you brought in, you'd have to explode it which would eliminate the ability to update the model.

I guess I just don't use Layout shapes too much, so I've never had a need to apply hatching to them. Most of what I put in Layout are Sketchup models and annotations, so I'd just apply hatching as a material in Sketchup.

Confused...

Krisidious · 27 May 2013, 20:44

@unknownuser said:

I guess I'm just missing the point of the pattern/hatching tool in Layout, if you can only use it on shapes created in Layout. If you wanted to hatch a model that you brought in, you'd have to explode it which would eliminate the ability to update the model.

I guess I just don't use Layout shapes too much, so I've never had a need to apply hatching to them. Most of what I put in Layout are Sketchup models and annotations, so I'd just apply hatching as a material in Sketchup.

Confused...

The main reason I do it it is because with your method you are left with raster images and not vector lines. I want vector.