SketchUp 2013 ;)

jason_maranto

@mike lucey said:

I've been reading / following all the posts made on this topic and feel that most of the steam has now blown off. Regardless of what one thinks or doesn't think about SU 2013, I feel there is no excuse for your, what appears to me, personal attack on John Bacus.

Long post and certainly alot to digest so let me reciprocate.

First off, let my say clearly I left here after those last posts and never came back until 2013 was released... and I only came back to make it absolutely crystal clear that this release was deficient. You can check the forum logs if you like to verify this as fact.

John Bacus is the head -- ultimately he is the one responsible for everything that the SketchUp team does or does not do do... when things go well he deserved credit, when things go wrong he deserves blame.

When a company goes down the tubes it is expected that a CEO gets fired or steps down -- this is no different. I'm sure Bacus is a very nice guy with alot of really endearing qualities -- but he has proven an incompetent leader of the SketchUp team at the very least.

There are alot of people here with ulterior motives to stay on his good side, it is of personal and professional benefit to them that he, being the man in power, see them as "on his side". I have no such limitation -- so I am free, in all the ways you are not, to voice my 100% honest opinions. I actually expected to be banned by now... I can't imagine Bacus is happy about some guy on the forums calling, repeated and clearly, for his head

I've always been 100% for forcing users to move to Pro -- check the posts and verify the facts. But there is a right way and a wrong way to do this. The right way is to make the upgrade to Pro so compelling that users cannot resists opening their wallets. This is done by adding actual features and really honoring the desires of the users base. The wrong way is what we got -- judge for yourself.

I'm not opposed to spending real money on my applications, provided they are worthwhile -- SketchUp is not and has not been worthwhile for a long time now. Are there perfect alternatives? Not really, but those alternatives will never have the chance to fully materialize as long as people keep throwing good money after bad towards SketchUp.

To be perfectly blunt I would have rather see SketchUp die at this point and have the market forced to move onto alternatives now, rather than wait years only to have the process be that much harder in the long run. Not a popular sentiment here, I know -- but I'm not here to win any friends, and I don't care a whit if I make enemies. However I always hope against hope that I will become such an foul irritant, and Bacus will be so put out, that he will actually do something productive with SketchUp just to shut me up.

Best,
Jason.

Krisidious

No problem... Now if someone will just fix my Jim's toolbar I'll be back to 100%

kaas

my 2cts after using SketchUp 2013 for a very short time.

likes:

SU opens and closes really quick

dislikes:

SU doesn't redraw the 3d window (when toggling to another application and back) on my old (GMA 965 gfx) laptop that I use for presentations only.
new icons
~~no double side bar anymore~~ -> just pick your toolbars and make a double row yourself
~~several plugins that don't work 100% out of the box (the selection toys toolbar wont display, the preview window of profile builder doesn't work - have to test more)~~ -> manually installing latest version of selection toys did the trick, just had to install an updated javascript file to make ProfileBuilder work 100% again
why do I have to type in my Google account name + password to be able to use the extension warehouse??

suggestions:

hatches are fine but I prefer them in Sketchup - real lines that can be exported to third party programs. I prefer to make a section in SU, add hatches and use both in LO several times for: 1) section, 2) several details - If I would use the hatches in LO, I would have to do them separately - is not going to happen for me.

also:

i didn't notice a speed increase in my LO files.

early conclusion:
~~at the moment I see no reason to switch to SU 2013. I will keep an eye on the forum to see if I have to reconsider~~I have to test more to see if updating makes sense.

edit: updated some fixes

Rich O Brien

@Jason

Why don't you use Twitter or G+ or Facebook to voice your opinions?

It is very easy these to target SketchUp to vent frustrations.

You could actually make all these remarks in the SketchUp G+ community page to get John's attention. He hasn't visited here since March and since he is the Mod over there you probably have a better chance getting a response.

You can see who visits here...some are even lurking now....

http://sketchucation.com/forums/memberlist.php?mode=group&g=7

SU are probably not paying a blind bit of notice to what you are saying. That doesn't mean what you are saying is right or wrong. For me, I see you've posted, I know what's coming before I read it. I have a chuckle and I move on.

The only thing that irks me in your posts is that you refer to someone by their surname. For some reason that really pisses me off?

But, as always, I encourage to continue with your crusade for a better SU as I'll benefit too. I just think you are currently you are playing a gig to no audience.

I think I said this to you before. You've outgrown the product. You'll gain an extra $95 they'll lose $95. The universe will remain balanced and we'll live to see v2014.

You never know, Trimble might move John up the monkey tree to concentrate on bigger things that would mean Mayor Mike then gets the reigns since SCF owns 50% of Trimble.

Now I've a Bilderberg meeting to attend.....

jason_maranto

@frederik said:

You obviously don't like the smell here, so I fail to understand why you're still here...

@jason_maranto said:

However I always hope against hope that I will become such an foul irritant, and Bacus will be so put out, that he will actually do something productive with SketchUp just to shut me up.

There is your answer -- otherwise I have no real purpose here... I hope I am irritating Bacus as much as I am irritating you.

This is the reason I turned down the "Top SketchUcator" position when I was offered it last year -- if I were in a position of representing SketchUcation I would not feel free to be this honest. But since I represent nobody but myself I can act in whatever suits my ends... you may try to work within the system for change, I am trying to apply external pressure.

Best,
Jason.

jason_maranto

@rich o brien said:

The only thing that irks me in your posts is that you refer to someone by their surname. For some reason that really pisses me off?

I'm not sure how it is over there, but John is an incredibly common first name here -- so in order to make it clear who I am targeting I use his surname.

Best,
Jason.

Frederik

@rich o brien said:

Why don't you use Twitter or G+ or Facebook to voice your opinions?

+1

@rich o brien said:

Now I've a Bilderberg meeting to attend.....

I didn't know you were also a member, Mr. O Brien...

Frederik

@jason_maranto said:

First off, let my say clearly I left here after those last posts and never came back until 2013 was released... and I only came back to make it absolutely crystal clear that this release was deficient...

Why don't you then just jump off...?

@jason_maranto said:

John Bacus is the head -- ultimately he is the one responsible for everything that the SketchUp team does or does not do do... when things go well he deserved credit, when things go wrong he deserves blame.

Although he's the head, he's not the CEO of SketchUp and/or Trimble...
Actually he's the Product Management Director... I'm not even sure if he's the top guy of the SU Team...
Another fact... He's not even a part of the Trimble Executive Team - (as far as I know and are able to see)...

It's the Executive Team of Trimble who initiate the strategies and John Bacus (JB) is the person responsible for implementing it within his team...
Yes, the Executive Team will ask for his advice now and then, but ultimately they're the ones who are setting the strategy forth...

If JB doesn't like the strategy set forth, he's likely to step down by himself...
If JB fails to implement the strategy, he will be made redundant...

You're making assumptions and you're comparing apples with water melons...

@jason_maranto said:

I actually expected to be banned by now...

You can ban yourself and remain staying away from here...
You obviously don't like the smell here, so I fail to understand why you're still here...

@jason_maranto said:

I'm not opposed to spending real money on my applications, provided they are worthwhile -- SketchUp is not and has not been worthwhile for a long time now.

This is your personal opinion, I respect that, but please don't make your opinion sound like it's everybody feel...

Obviously SU isn't something for your toolbox anymore, so please go ahead and find another application...

thomthom

This thread is becoming increasingly sour...

Rich O Brien

Yeah, John is common here too. But referring to someone by their surname is kinda an insult unless you know them personally for a period.

It may just be a difference in culture.

I've vented it now. I might edit your posts to replace Bacus with 'darling' but it may take the edge off your intentions

Can someone tell me what it auto decides in google when you type 'why i hate' into the search? I got this....

http://weeklyworldnews.com/opinion/ed-anger/6916/ed-anger-says-i-hate-the-irish/

...i hope it is a local search result or something or the world is lying to the irish.

I was always under the impression it was Norwegians that were most reviled?

Frederik

@jason_maranto said:

I hope I am irritating Bacus as much as I am irritating you.

Much more clear... I understand everything completely now...
Although I was very tempted yesterday, I didn't comment on anything you wrote...
But today I felt the urge to say something, cause I fail to understand your motive...

Obviously you have a very strong opinion about how SU have developed over the past years... That's fine by me... I really don't have any issues with that...
You're entitled to have your own opinion...

However, I seem to loose understanding, why you're still here...
I've abandoned several applications, which I previously was using on a daily basis, but because other applications suited my needs better, I skipped the first and took aboard another...

@jason_maranto said:

This is the reason I turned down the "Top SketchUcator" position when I was offered it last year -- if I were in a position of representing SketchUcation I would not feel free to be this honest.

What a ridiculous argument...
Just because I'm a Top Sketchucator, it absolutely does not mean that I can't speak my mind...
If someone feel I'm too open in whatever I express, they are welcome to revoke my TS badge...

It's called freedom of speech...

@jason_maranto said:

I am trying to apply external pressure.

And you'll soon see that you'll fail...

jason_maranto

Actually "darling" may be even more funny -- I'm good with it

Best,
Jason.

Alan Fraser

@jason_maranto said:

There is your answer -- otherwise I have no real purpose here... I hope I am irritating Bacus as much as I am irritating you.

But that's just the point; you're not really irritating anyone...at least not in any kind of constructive way. Your attitude is so over-the-top that it's more like having someone in the room suffering from Asperger's...more an embarrassment than an irritant.
The notion that you imagine that your diatribes would ever influence John Bacus enough to meet your demands just to shut you up is beyond laughable.
Your obvious contempt for the software, the Project manager, the dev team...and even other users here (whom you seem to regard as naive toadies with no experience beyond SU) begs the question that Frederik posed..."Why are you still here?"

Personally, I've had many years experience with both Max and Rhino. I've also tried Lightwave, C4D, Maya, SoftImage, Modo, Wings3D, MOI and a host of others. I prefer SU to all of them, warts and all; it suits my workflow. It obviously doesn't suit yours.

arail1

@d12dozr said:

The big features in this release are Layout improvements and the Extension Warehouse. Do you negative nancys really not see what a BIG FREAKING DEAL the Extensions warehouse is?? And just because you don't personally use Layout doesn't mean countless other folks don't appreciate the update.

I think the negative comments are a good thing. Trimble needs to fully understand what their SketchUp customers want and expect going forward and this is the place for them to hear it.

I am, like most, completely underwhelmed to the extent that I worry about the future. A development team that is completely in the dark about my needs as a customer is not something that I can cheer about. The EW is something we already have here at Sketchucation and the reference to Layout borders on silliness. A simplified hatch tool that I can only use in LO but not in SketchUp and curved leaders? That's an upgrade? You still cannot dimension objects in 3D to any reasonable extent. Dimensions are only minimally associative. A hatch tool that you can only use if you draw in LO is no hatch tool at all - it's a gimmick. With this upgrade I'll use Layout exactly as I have in the past - as a way to format the size of SketchUp images for export to another program.

To put it in simple terms - this is an upgrade that will not upgrade my SketchUp or LO workflow in any way whatsoever. Thom thom's Vertex Tools changed the way I use SketchUp - and it only cost me $20. 2D Tools also changed my workflow fundamentally and it was free. Trimble gives me a way to access those tools and calls it an upgrade? Really ...

thomthom

@rich o brien said:

Yeah, John is common here too. But referring to someone by their surname is kinda an insult unless you know them personally for a period.

It may just be a difference in culture.

I was under the impression that, maybe a few decades ago, that it was common to address people by their last name if you didn't know them that well. Maybe prefixing with "Mr" etc...

@rich o brien said:

Can someone tell me what it auto decides in google when you type 'why i hate' into the search? I got this....

http://weeklyworldnews.com/opinion/ed-anger/6916/ed-anger-says-i-hate-the-irish/

...i hope it is a local search result or something or the world is lying to the irish.

The first result for me was: http://whyihatepeople.com/

@rich o brien said:

I was always under the impression it was Norwegians that were most reviled?[/offtopic]

Yeh pick a fight ye Potato-eating, beer-puking Pope-lover?

...I thought it was the French...

Frederik

@alan fraser said:

But that's just the point; you're not really irritating anyone...at least not in any kind of constructive way. Your attitude is so over-the-top that it's more like having someone in the room suffering from Asperger's...more an embarrassment than an irritant.

That's SO well said...

jason_maranto

@frederik said:

@jason_maranto said:

This is the reason I turned down the "Top SketchUcator" position when I was offered it last year -- if I were in a position of representing SketchUcation I would not feel free to be this honest.

What a ridiculous argument...
Just because I'm a Top Sketchucator, it absolutely does not mean that I can't speak my mind...
If someone feel I'm too open in whatever I express, they are welcome to revoke my TS badge...

It's called freedom of speech...

Perhaps I simply see the responsibility differently than you -- to me I would not want to do anything to undermine this community, or cause problems for the fine people who run it, as long as it could be said I am somehow representing them.

@frederik said:

@jason_maranto said:

I am trying to apply external pressure.

And you'll soon see that you'll fail...

Perhaps.

I have alot of time and some money invested in SketchUp -- I do like the many good things about this program... most of which were in place from the @last regime. I would love nothing better than to see a SketchUp update come out that I could be enthusiastically behind and promote as faithfully as I have in the past.

Maybe you don't know this, but I have been a staunch defender and promoter of SketchUp in many ways up till recently -- I decided that that approach was getting me nowhere. Will this approach get more results? maybe not -- but it cannot achieve less results.

Best,
Jason.