SketchUp 2013 ;)
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@pbacot said:
@thomthom said:
@archheni said:
Yes, this used to be the workaround. However now it doesn't work anymore. To quote ThomThom: "It only works on native toolbars. Doesn't work on Ruby Toolbars unfortunately."
I was referring to the new toolbar system on Windows. Didn't realize that OSX ha toolbar problems as well. Though it was just us peecee guys...
TT go take a look at SU on Mac. Toolbars and Windows are crap. If you use different monitors it is even worse. There is no program that takes such time rearranging toolbars and windows, even within sessions.
I suppose they did nothing on the appearance of SU on Retina Display. Really bad.
the Mac toolbar is stupid from the beginning, whatever the application. A huge waste of space and once you've filled a row you have to use a scroll button to see more.
Sometimes SU (which, I think, began on Mac) makes me want to get a PC. No other apps do.
Yeah DITTO and most of the SU team uses Macs from what I've seen on base camp videos
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My proverbial 2 cents:
SU 2013 might not have much SU features on the outside but it certainly does have under the hood, I find it faster and more stable. It does take some getting used to the new icons as they are not instantly recognizable and dock different to the side (I got them to side dock double)
I'm content, sure everyone knows my wish list as it's been the same since @last owned SU and even Google never provided any solutions so no use flogging a dead horse.
The biggest improvement happened with Thea4SU, something I use daily, occasionally I'd get splats and hanging renders but so far it's cruising sweet and fast.
Another is I have not gotten any greyed out menu's but that may be because I do not have a kajillion plugins like with SU8 and will also contribute to SU 2013 opening in a second and not a minute.Had my say...carry on.
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@chiefwoodworker said:
No, it should never have made number one or two priority of things that made the list to be included in the 2013 release in the first place. There were much more valuable ways to spend resources.
That depends on point of view though. Personally I find a repository to be a very important feature in the SketchUp ecosystem. It's what is needed in order to mature the market of plugins and extensions. I've many times sketched up the design for a repository myself - but realising how huge a task it is. So I'm happy it's finally being realised - not even that, we now have two! The EW that ships with SU that will bring attention to the Plugin/Extension feature in SketchUp (free marketing) to every SketchUp user out there. Then we have SCF's shop which contains all the existing plugins out there and is even compatible with older SketchUp versions.
@chiefwoodworker said:
It is curious to me why you guys have to be out in front protecting Trimble when there seems to be no Trimble people (short of Chris who has been a member of the team for only a short while) here listening to users concerns. Are you really pleased with this release?
I fully understand that people can feel underwhelmed by SU2013. To be honest my initial gut reaction was "was that all?". I was particularly hoping for API improvements.
But none the less, I think the EW is a great feature - for the reason stated earlier of it's great marketing value for developers. Something I do think will attract more developers with more great ideas and tools. As I said - it's a feature I nearly developed myself. That's why I can say I like it even though there was no API improvements. From Basecamp 2012 they made it clear they aim to make SketchUp a platform - and I do believe that will be carried through. Yes, no Ruby API love this time, but a new C API that is supported in contrast to the unsupported C++ API.
And another thing - it was in April 2012 that SketchUp became part of Trimble. That just a little bit over a year from which they got new owners with new goals.
I see this release as turning around a big ship. Looking at it in a long term picture and I have good hopes of good things to come. I'm focusing on the positive things in this release even though it didn't include everything I'd hoped for.
It does also help when you get to talk to the SketchUp team like at BaseCamp - where one get the opportunity to have a face to face dialogue with them. I mean, we had many of the regular coders here at the forum in a great session on what we'd like to see introduced and improved. That was in October, just about half a year ago.I think the crux in our differences here is how we look at the time-scale and expectations.
But it's only so far we'll get by talking about what we expect etc. In one year's time when we see the second Trimble SketchUp release we'll get a much clearer picture of the direction SketchUp is heading.
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It looks like this release of SU is there to lay the foundations for the integration into the Trimble suite of products which makes complete sense.
Those not involved in the construction industry can't appreciate the need for SU (or similar tools) to take on the Autodesk high priced monopoly that is seriously hampering the evolution of IT in that sector and in education. That will come to an end somehow and SU just might do it.
I am patient with this release but will have high expectations for the next release to show real feature add-ons.
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Does anyone seriously believe that a Free version of anything should be available for Professional use ?
If you want to make money from it, pay for it.....it's quite simple....!
As for SU 2013, here is my 2 cents worth :
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I think we have lost perspective of how brilliant SU was when @last first introduced it, and sure, it needed (and still needs) a bit of a kick to get it to do more because us humans always want things to do more. And yes, if it wasn't for certain individual plugin developers SU wouldn't be as good as it is now. My point is this, SU is still pretty damn good.
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I'm with Thomtom, Solo and a few others who are looking at this a little more objectively
and...
- We will eventually discover whether or not Trimble fully understand exactly what the needs of the high end users of SU are....the question remains if they can deliver all those things and at a reasonable price point and within a reasonable time frame, because if not, the market will talk with their wallets, and competitors will seize on the opportunity to secure our business. Trimble have been around for long enough to understand that basic concept.
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@jason_maranto said:
I heard about this release on the Maxwell forum and decided to come by to see exactly how bad it actually was -- and it's actually worse than I expected... that's hilarious. I especially like to see the people desperately trying to find something to be enthusiastic about... you've been trolled by Trimble, time to move on.
This is may be the worst full version update I've seen yet -- the licensing is a joke and I am now %100 convinced to give my money to another software company and never look back again.
If I hear at some point that Bacus is fired I may take a look at SketchUp again (unlikely though), until then have fun paying for this joke
Best,
Jason.Jason,
I've been reading / following all the posts made on this topic and feel that most of the steam has now blown off. Regardless of what one thinks or doesn't think about SU 2013, I feel there is no excuse for your, what appears to me, personal attack on John Bacus. This is not right and beneath you. I feel you are capable of a more restrained constructive critique. John B works in a team and SU 2013 is the resulting efforts of what I imagine has been a very pressurised team trying to get de-Googlized and now Trimblized.
I don't know the full story or circumstances with regard to why Google sold off SketchUp. The penny obviously dropped that there were quicker ways to populate GE. I do know that when Google have no further ewquirement for an application that is in their possession they tend not to sell it off. However in SketchUp's case an exception was made ...... I wonder why? I or course have a very good idea why and one doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out.
I imagine it was a stressful time for those that were dedicated to SketchUp. I also imagine that SketchUp could quite easily have been stuck on a shelf somewhere deep in Google's drained out applications vault and died a slow death there. If this had happened we would not be having this conversation. However this did not happen and from what I gather John B was instrumental in the survival of SketchUp. IMO, you owe John an open apology at the very least.
While I'm not overly existed about SU 2013, I also was hoping for more! I do however see it as a bedding in release starting with the reinforcement of the foundations for future releases that more than likely will be in specialist areas, AEC in particular.
Jason, you have said in the past that if TSU did not deliver a 64 bit version we would not see your heels for dust! However here you are. Personally I would not like to see you migrate to another application totally as I appreciate your expertise and enthusiasm but not the tone you are displaying currently.
I am now wondering if SketchUp addiction is embedded in you to such an extent that you are not fully able to bin it, pack your bags and leave! I opening admit that I became addicted to SketchUp's 'ease of use' back in 2000. I have looked at and tried many other applications before and since then but to date have found nothing that is quite so addictivley easy to use.
Should folks upgrade or jump in and go with SU Pro 2013? Well thats entirely up to them. SU Free and Pro 8 work fine to a large extent and SketchUcation has even provided a Plugin Store http://sketchucation.com/resources/plugin-store-download to help handle the plugins that have been developed and launched here by our great bunch of scriptors.
The news goods have been placed on the shelves TSU, still at what I consider to be reasonable cost. Whatever honor arrangements in relation to GSU Free that may have been required by Google at the point of sale would also appear to have been delivered with just a reasonable request that SU Make only be used for non commercial activity, again most reasonable I feel.
Google had big pockets and obviously did not demand that SketchUp had to 'pay it way' fully, they appeared to be happy leveraging it for GE and advert sales. Trimble on the other hand, while a large corporation, appears to have different commercial criteria / objectives. What it boils down to from where I am sitting, it that TSU may only develop further if Pro 2013 purchases are taken up thus providing development revenue for further development. Where I come from, 'one hand washes the other'!
It appears to me that the bottom line is as simple as, jump in or jump out.
Mike
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Coming into this a bit late it looks like. I had no idea a new version was out until today. My impression is on par with the majority...YAAAAAAWWWN
I'm not one to be overly negative but it feels like it's been a long time since I've really seen a tool developed that applies to me. And I'm in architectural visualization, so not exactly on the outskirts of the target community. With Google, it felt like they were just concerned with filling up Google Earth. I had some high hopes that the Trimble folks would fall more inline with my own hopes for SU. I'm a bit fearful now that Layout may prove to be their Google Earth which sucks up the majority of the development time and interests me not at all. I hope that's not the case but it looks like I'll have to wait another year to have a better gauge.
I understand the value of the extension warehouse. It's a big deal. It just feels underwhelming since we JUST got that not long ago from the sketchucation folks. So it effectively adds nothing new from what I can tell.
I don't really care about the licensing things. Sketchup is still inexpensive and I wouldn't expect to do Pro work with a free software. In fact, I wouldn't necessarily want to. More money should mean more/faster/better development.
Many are speculating that this was mostly an 'under the hood' release so that Trimble can REALLY do what they want next time. I have 2 issues with that.
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we've always been told to rest assured that the sketchup team has been unchanged since the @Last days and so there is consistency. A vast 'under the hood' overhaul in order to make future changes seems to suggest a lack of consistency.
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That's fine if you want to do that, but why charge an upgrade fee for a 'set up' for a future product. It feels like getting charged twice. Like if McDonalds charged me the price of a burger once when they killed the cow, and then again, after they made it into a tasty burger.
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Bonus: I here a couple people mentioning some reserved comments about possible performance and stability increases. I'd fully support a new version in which there were no really sexy changes to speak about, but under the hood there were some truly significant upgrades.
I sympathize with Jason's argument and hope to keep him in the community, but my own feelings are much more mitigated. The truth is that SketchUp was a very good architectural modeling tool years ago and architecture hasn't changed much since then. With each unimpressive release, I don't feel SU becoming LESS useful to me. I just don't feel like it's becoming any MORE useful to me. I don't want to be unimpressed. I'm not looking to gripe about new features. I wantto support SU and Trimble in the direction they're going. Unfortunately this release doesn't feel like it's goneanywhere.
-Brodie
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I simply don't get the hostility in this thread.
The big features in this release are Layout improvements and the Extension Warehouse. Do you negative nancys really not see what a BIG FREAKING DEAL the Extensions warehouse is?? And just because you don't personally use Layout doesn't mean countless other folks don't appreciate the update.
When was the last time you got really excited about something Sketchup related? Likely is was some kind of plugin - Thea, Maxwell, Fredo's TopoShaper, Sketchucation's Plugin Store. The Extensions Warehouse (EW) is just going to make these kind of things more visible and more frequent. Ever since the last Basecamp, Trimble made it clear that they're committed to enabling plugin authors.
Think of the Apple App store or Google Play and the thousands of options available on your smartphone...now bring that same environment, energy, and excitement to create the next big thing to Sketchup. Sketchup becomes a platform for plugin devs to launch apps that allow the rest of us to make awesome stuff.
I'm all for letting the team know what we want...we've been demanding a better plugin system for years, and now we have it. I'm delighted! Sure there's room for improvement - SCF's Plugin Store is better in some ways. So lets tell the team what we want and let them do their job.
If Sketchup isn't working for you, move on! I for one am sick of the endless whining of a few grouches.
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@d12dozr said:
I simply don't get the hostility in this thread.
The big features in this release are Layout improvements and the Extension Warehouse. Do you negative nancys really not see what a BIG FREAKING DEAL the Extensions warehouse is?? And just because you don't personally use Layout doesn't mean countless other folks don't appreciate the update.
Oh..is it really.. or rather an evidence of incapacity!? What was the last tool they developed by themselves -booleans??
Sure, more people are going to install, use and eventually develop plugins - but where are the underlying improvements in SU itself for such a bold move? Where is the performance boost, multicore support, 64bit, stability, polycount etc..? There are simply too many limitations and bottlenecks. I know plugin operations which take minutes in SU that can be done in less than 3s in other programs if executed..
If it's Trimble's strategy to put the future development of SU tools into the hand of 3rd party developers, they should get their house in order first. But exactly that hasn't happened yet.
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@unknownuser said:
Does anyone seriously believe that a Free version of anything should be available for Professional use ?
If you want to make money from it, pay for it.....it's quite simple....!
I seriously do... Even though I pay for Pro. I think that making certain tools only available to the pros limits the abuse, while allowing people from poorer countries and those with very small companies that are struggling in these hard times to build their respective businesses. They need every penny they can get. Do you realize how much money $600.00 is to an Indian or Pakistani?
In previous versions it's not like the free people were getting much out of it. No Layout, no DWG export, No solids tools... I'm sure I'm missing a few things. But then after that there are the part time developers, We will push some away to free programs if we force them to pay for something they really don't use to make money.
Personally, I liked the way it was. Pay for Pro and use SU "Make" for free.
MAKE SketchUp "Make" Free!
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@archheni said:
Where is the performance boost, multicore support, 64bit, stability, polycount etc..?
3 of the 5 have been addressed in this version and the other 2 have been beaten like a dead horse in here with many of our top SketchUp minds saying it's unneeded.
I have a 64bit multi-core system with 32 gigs of ram... If they make it 64 bit I'm not going to complain, but I don't know that I have seen anyone prove Thom, John and the others wrong. And obviously a International Power House of a Company that has tons of other construction related software didn't see the reasoning either.
I defer on that matter to more informed minds.
Speaking of those minds. I have spoken with Bacus a few times, one of the few CEO's/ Managers/Decision makers (what ever he is), of software that I own that has ever given much of a crap about what I or anyone in some forum on the internet thinks. I have always found him to be forthright, polite and interested in our ideas. I have 0% interest in seeing him leave SketchUp. This can be said of many of the employees of SU, I see many of them here and they are always looking to help or listen. The choices they make afterward are up to them and their business model. I appreciate being heard.
I'm not excited about this release either and I'm not "defending" it... I'm defending the software as a whole. Frankly, it feels like a maintenance release, however the backside changes seem to be impressive and the improvement in stability was needed badly. Whatsmore I needed these layout changes like yesterday.
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Well then can somebody please show and explain the full list of those 3 improvements? What exactly has been improved in terms of performance? How does it effect the workflow? Do plugins get executed faster now? Does SU still crashes or freezes when running out of memory?
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I believe there are a few other threads with the more background based stuff going on right now, I'll look to find them and update this. So far I have had one crash, but I wasn't working in SU when it happened. Things seem faster and more stable to me. Opening the program is faster. I think I heard Chris Fullmer say they rebuilt the whole thing, but like I said I don't follow software coding talk. Plugins do seem to execute faster, like profile builder builds detailed crowns much faster now. I don't know that workflow is affected... Except for Layout Improvements.
I think this is one where they discuss background stuff.
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It is easy to test performance because you can have v8 and v2013 installed in tandem.
I personally don't see the improvement in speed. I know startup times are reduced and the whole UI got a much needed face lift.
Sent from my iPad
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If there are improvements, why don't they tell us about it?
How am I (i'm not using Layout) going to convince my boss to buy the new version?
"Well...eh, it starts faster" is not going to be enough to convince him. -
Doesn't the blog tell you LayOut has a 40% speed improvement and another level of zoom?
I haven't read it.
What I typical measure in a new release is mesh selection speeds. V7.1 is still the fastest when making selections. V2013 is slower than v8.
File import speeds are the same and still incredibly slow.
Mesh generation is faster. Things like Artisan and CurviLoft are faster.
Toolbar fixing is a big deal but the padding around the toolbars is larger so real estate is chewed up a bit.
Did you not run the trial?
Sent from my iPad
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@thomthom said:
And another thing - it was in April 2012 that SketchUp became part of Trimble. That just a little bit over a year from which they got new owners with new goals.
I see this release as turning around a big ship.
Yes, maybe... but this is no reason for me to sell such a small improvement as full update!
This is a tiny service release not more. If the big new features are not ready now why release a full number update at all now? To make money? If i don't get anything new, why should i pay for Trimble's development cost?!? This happens if the new features get released. Is this Kickstarter or what? Will i get a T-shirt when i buy an update? -
@numerobis said:
This is a tiny service release not more. If the big new features are not ready now why release a full number update at all now? To make money?
Because many customers would probably be more annoyed if they had to wait until 2014 for the first true Trimble release? I think it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for the developers. Releasing a lacklustre version now is probably better than a late 2013 release or no update at all this year.
Also, it wouldn't surprise me if we were to see a major maintenance release towards the end of the year (when the real improvements are ready
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@rich o brien said:
Doesn't the blog tell you LayOut has a 40% speed improvement and another level of zoom?
I haven't read it.
What I typical measure in a new release is mesh selection speeds. V7.1 is still the fastest when making selections. V2013 is slower than v8.
File import speeds are the same and still incredibly slow.
Mesh generation is faster. Things like Artisan and CurviLoft are faster.
Toolbar fixing is a big deal but the padding around the toolbars is larger so real estate is chewed up a bit.
Did you not run the trial?
As I said, if there are improvements to SketchUp (I'm not using Layout) why don't they tell us?
Why do we have to test and guess what has been improved?
Don't they know that many users will have to go to their boss and ask to buy a new version and that we need to have solid arguments to why the upgrade is necessary?
I'm not saying I'm disapointed or anything, I just want some facts (about SketchUp fixes) I can tell my boss or I will not be allowed to buy the new version. -
@pixero said:
As I said, if there are improvements to SketchUp (I'm not using Layout) why don't they tell us?
Why do we have to test and guess what has been improved?
Don't they know that many users will have to go to their boss and ask to buy a new version and that we need to have solid arguments to why the upgrade is necessary?
I'm not saying I'm disapointed or anything, I just want some facts (about SketchUp fixes) I can tell my boss or I will not be allowed to buy the new version.Here... I think this is what you're looking for.
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