SketchUp 2013 ;)
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@richard said:
@ Krisidious AND @ jason_maranto
Although I think that zform may well develop to work with Architecture given the take up by Architects is VERY low and that BIM integration might never be integrated I'm not sure it will be a total replacement.
er. I thought that was what Form-Z was for all along (architecture). Are there usage studies somewhere?
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[quote="Richard"]@ Krisidious AND @ jason_maranto
STOP IT!!!!!!
Have disagreements but guys don't lower the tone of your arguments!
Well said Richard...although a bit of 'biffo' can be entertaining.
Anyhow, I have a choice of paying a speeding fine or buying SU 2013....methinks I'll pay the speeding fine and I'll still have enough left over to take the lady out to a nice restaurant.
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I wonder what Brad and Joe would be thinking about the way their brilliant program has been treated and the direction it is heading ?
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A tell tale sign of how much of a disappointment this 'upgrade' is (I put it in parenthesis because it's really little more than a minor service release and shouldn't be called an upgrade) - only 2 threads with little discussion other than complaints. Not surprising considering there's really nothing to discuss - toolbars? meh!
Think about the modo upgrade to 601 - dozens and dozens of threads on the modo forum, tutorials popping up left and right to discuss the new features and explain how to use them, reviews in 3D magazines, users jumping ship from Maya and 3DMAX and LW to get on board. Now that's what's called an Upgrade.
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@unknownuser said:
@krisidious said:
@jason_maranto said:
Other options worth noting are Rhino, MoI3D and Blender...
You're comparing Sketchup to things it was never supposed to be and whatsmore those things cannot build a set of construction documents for a structure. For pure modelers that are only interested in making games, movies or renders and especially organics then those programs are great, for designing, building in 3D and then documenting for construction they can't compete.
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@krisidious said:
I'm shallow? So then why are you still here? And I take you have no answers for those questions and I would like to see these architectural plugins that they have built in. Like making roofs, making driveways with curbs, doing my framing and such.
rhino is pretty robust natively (moreso than su/layout combined) as far as 2D stuff goes:
http://www.rhino3d.com/new/draftingcombined with a plugin such as VisualArq and you'd be set
http://www.visualarq.com.
So $1000.00 for Rhino and then $400.00 that plugin and what do I get? I saw nothing there that I can't do with SU/Layout for a $95 upgrade.
@unknownuser said:
i would say it's even cheaper with these $825... if you calculate the whole subscription cost for the update period of Rhino... When did Rhino 4 get released? 2004? 2005? I don't remember... So if it was 2005 this would be $825 for 7 years including 9 service releases! vs $590+6x$95= $1160 for sketchup including 6 Updates!
I think the association Sketchup=cheap 3D is history now..Actually like Version 7 or 8 didn't upgrade so I had to buy the whole thing for $499 again. And it was 499 back then when it started. and it started selling at V5 with Pro? maybe I'm wrong but I think that is when I first bought it. so V5, 6, 7 and 8 now 2013 SO up to now I have only had to pay for 5 versions 2 full price and 3 upgrades. I'm sitting at around $1300 without plugin purchases which probably total about $400.
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@marvins_dad said:
Just downloaded and installed the eval version of Pro.
Then I read this entire thread.I did notice a lot of talk about large toolbar icons, but no one pointed out that you can turn that feature off...go to the tab.
[attachment=0:2ni0iq5w]<!-- ia0 -->Toolbars2013.JPG<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:2ni0iq5w]Also, network licenses are a $150 upgrade.
Not to thrilled about that...will have to see if the boss wants to spend that sort of cash.Still have clipping of the model view in one of my larger models...was hoping the under the hood work would have fixed that. It is a big issue when trying to zoom in to work on details as well as just getting shots of the model.
Guess I have 7hrs and 30 minutes left to figure out if it is worth the upgrade.
For the "Make" version (thinking home) will .stl be available?...mainly doing 3d printing at the house these days.
I think they are larger even when small. I believe they are now using 32x32 icons where most were 16x16 before.
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Apart from discussions based around what SU 2013 can or can't do, there seems to be some confusion about it's cost....
The costs appear to be as follows for a single seat upgrade from SU8 Pro(please correct me if I am mistaken (and then beat around the head with a 10lb wet salmon...!!)
- $95US if you are upgrading from SU8
- $590US if you are purchasing a new (single) license
I haven't downloaded it, but went as far as the checkout and the details are as follows :
*- Upgrade to SketchUp 2013, Single User, No charge, Version 2013
Old Serial Number: XX-XXXXXXXXX-XX- Upgrade 1 year Maintenance & Support, Single User, Version 2013 $95.00*
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@gareth said:
Apart from discussions based around what SU 2013 can or can't do, there seems to be some confusion about it's cost....
The costs appear to be as follows for a single seat upgrade from SU8 Pro(please correct me if I am mistaken (and then beat around the head with a 10lb wet salmon...!!)
- $95US if you are upgrading from SU8
- $590US if you are purchasing a new (single) license
I haven't downloaded it, but went as far as the checkout and the details are as follows :
*- Upgrade to SketchUp 2013, Single User, No charge, Version 2013
Old Serial Number: XX-XXXXXXXXX-XX- Upgrade 1 year Maintenance & Support, Single User, Version 2013 $95.00*
When I put my name and serial in I get charged $95.00 so I must be a bit further out?
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I used to work with fomZ back from 1998-2006. Although the software was very promising in the beginning, it was quickly overtaken by other packages on the left and right side of the 3D road. In fact they suffered from the very same sclerotic, lame development SU is having here today. Within years nothing had really changed. The user interface was terribly outdated and the app itself was painfully buggy. When many frustrated users eventually switched to other packages, they must have finally realized that something more substantial needs to happen in order to survive..
While I have to admit that they did a decent job with their product rejuvenation compared with how it looked before, development again seems to have stalled the last years..No support for HiDPI? No 64bit..?
That's not an alternative (or at least for me).Assuming that Trimble has really set a new direction now, I still hope that SU will speed up their development cycle, and give us real and substantial improvements in terms of new tools and performance very soon (all modern OS & software are 64bit for years already..so please spare us the excuses). But I won't wait forever..
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@krisidious said:
So $1000.00 for Rhino and then $400.00 that plugin and what do I get? I saw nothing there that I can't do with SU/Layout for a $95 upgrade.
I think you're being unnecessarily defensive about SketchUp. I use SketchUp every day and love it (limitations and all) but it's a simple fact that there are some things that Rhino can do that SketchUp can't - real annotations would be one thing and complex curves would be another. There are whole classes of shapes that, theoretically, could be produced using Artisan with SketchUp but it would be laborious. In Rhino these types of shapes would be automatic.
Download a demo of Rhino and try it out. Coming from SketchUp, you'll find working in the Rhino environment very familiar and enjoyable. V5 introduced the Gumball which gives you modeling control very similar to SketchUp.
Trust me - as a designer you'll like it. And I don't think you'll experience it as a 'replacement' for SketchUp but more as a complementary tool.
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@krisidious said:
So $1000.00 for Rhino and then $400.00 that plugin and what do I get? I saw nothing there that I can't do with SU/Layout for a $95 upgrade.
i'm not trying to spend your money or make you use rhino etc.. i was just pointing out that the stuff you said (in the quotes) was actually pretty far from the truth
namely:
@unknownuser said:
You're comparing Sketchup to things it was never supposed to be and whatsmore those things cannot build a set of construction documents for a structure. For pure modelers that are only interested in making games, movies or renders and especially organics then those programs are great, for designing, building in 3D and then documenting for construction they can't compete.
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You and Jason say it's "far from the truth" but I have yet to see any facts to the contrary. I see a similar Layout Program, Not many examples, None of the Architectural tools to the extent I already have; and this is all to the point of Form.z is "Better" than SU and they "care" more about us. I don't see it. Whatsmore the price is much higher.
It does have some of the architectural tools but each and every one I have investigated is inferior to what I have in SU/Layout with my plugins. Perhaps it has nurbs and more complex modeling handling but those are not things that interest me enough to switch. You can buy Vali Architects and 1001 bit Pro for under $100 and the tools within are infinitely better than anything I see in Rhino or Form.z
You say it's so much better, the burden of proof is on you, not me... Prove it. If I were a Rhino user on a Rhino forum I would expect someone touting SketchUp there to prove it, not just say you're wrong. Show me examples of things I can do there that I can't do here.
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@krisidious said:
You say it's so much better, the burden of proof is on you, not me... Prove it.
this isn't the right thread to prove it in nor is it my desire to prove it.. pretty much the only thing i care to say about it is that i've used sketchup since 2004.. started flirting with rhino a couple of years ago.. and it's now my go to application
[edit] actually 2003.
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@slbaumgartner said:
@archheni said:
@thomthom said:
@archheni said:
Every restart will wipe out all non-native plugins and tools..
?
What's being wiped out?..All non-native plugins on the customized toolbar.
This looks to me like a long-standing issue has simply continued. Every time I start SketchUp on the Mac, it opens a blank file window with a toolbar that contains only the built-ins. If I close that file and do a File->New, the customized toolbar is restored. Despite numerous complaints in the past, it appears that 2013 does nothing about this...
Yes, this used to be the workaround. However now it doesn't work anymore. To quote ThomThom: "It only works on native toolbars. Doesn't work on Ruby Toolbars unfortunately."
OK, tried again today after a fresh reinstall - now the customized toolbar get's restored again with this workaround..that's one good thing at least.
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@valerostudio said:
Get yourself Mystic Thumbs.http://mysticcoder.net/mysticthumbs.html
Thanks for the suggestion. I looked at the forums regarding Thumbs, but was concerned over reports it can hang the PC when looking at network folders, where we keep all our data.
My concern is that we have to buy an extra bit of software to access something that was already built into SKUP. -
@archheni said:
Yes, this used to be the workaround. However now it doesn't work anymore. To quote ThomThom: "It only works on native toolbars. Doesn't work on Ruby Toolbars unfortunately."
I was referring to the new toolbar system on Windows. Didn't realize that OSX ha toolbar problems as well. Though it was just us peecee guys...
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@ilay7k said:
i see severals from sketchup team, they lost in corners like cowards
Mind your language - keep it polite.
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@adamb said:
Just to lighten the mood a tad, don't make the mistake I did and google for "Rhino Extensions" .
Definitely NSFW!
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First impressions are that SU 2013 is a seriously underwhelming upgrade, and the new licencing restrictions make it a major step backwards in many ways. I've yet to try it out with a large model, so I'll tentatively reserve judgement, but if the updates continue at the same rate that they have done in the past there seems little obvious advantage to be gained from making the switch from SU 8 unless you make much use of Layout.
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@john.warburton said:
I've yet to try it out with a large model, so I'll tentatively reserve judgement
I've not noticed much change in terms of handling more geometry. But there's indication that some plugins perform faster. I'm still trying to run some profiling.
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