A new home for SketchUp
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@alan fraser said:
Back on topic and regarding Bimmer's post:
At the moment (and until he comes back and gives more detail), I'm disregarding it. It has no provenance and no supporting evidence. Bimmer may be genuine in his warning; they may be heartfelt and maybe a cause for concern.
On the other hand, they could be writings of someone who isn't comfortable in the corporate culture, a disgruntled ex-employee, or even a complete troll, by way of a bit of light industrial sabotage...we have absolutely no way of knowing. He signed up, made this single post and hasn't been heard from since...not even to check any reaction.Certainly taking it with a grain of salt, but tell me something like that has never happened in the corporate world. It's just good to be ware, and hell, I love a good doomsday warning
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@alan fraser said:
Back on topic and regarding Bimmer's post:
... He signed up, made this single post and hasn't been heard from since...not even to check any reaction.Right.. for all we know, it could be a employee of any other competing software, just trying to scare users into looking at alternatives for their workflow.
And what are the team members supposed to do anyway? If they stay with Google, they may have to move to another division / team, etc. where the personnel dynamics and culture are also likely to change.
If they go to a new company.. there will be change as well.
So what do they have to lose ?? Might as well try things out with Trimble. A year or so down the road, if they don't care for how things are, they could always look elsewhere, perhaps even back with Google.
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@pc0158 said:
The purchase will lock up all proprietary code under Trimble's control; a re-do as part of another venture would be instantly crushed by lawsuits and the non-competition clauses all employees will be required to sign as part of the acquisition, or which they have already signed as part of their employment at Google.
Still, Michael Gibson, who created Rhino as an employee for McNeel, has created a new modeler called MoI, completely rethinking the UI and way of working.
SketchUp has, by design, a number of limitations. It would be really cool if the same team could start a completely new software, completely re-thinking the current paradigms of 3D modelers and coming up with something that is still simple, but way more powerful. Don't get too attached to a way of working that is already 12 years old.
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@solo said:
@unknownuser said:
@unknownuser said:
Really, that fixes it? Never would have guessed.
Still not a real curve, no matter how many times you roll your eyes.you have to use another software if 100% true curves are required.
simple as that.Is 100% curve even possible?
yeah.. it is..
(though on screen it's not totally possible because pixels are square.. when output to a robot saw though, the cuts can be absolutely true)[edit] a sort of similar problem comes up in nurbs apps.. the surfaces shown on screen are actually render meshes.. basically, they look like sketchup surfaces.. but the underlying calculations are there so when output, the true surfaces will be cut/printed)… likewise, when inferencing and what not, sometimes things will appear not to line up in the nurbs app because of the render mesh being used to represent the surface whereas intersecting with the surface is actually determined by the true surface… basically, with nurbs apps, learn to trust the wires and ignore the surfaces
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@unknownuser said:
@unknownuser said:
Really, that fixes it? Never would have guessed.
Still not a real curve, no matter how many times you roll your eyes.you have to use another software if 100% true curves are required.
simple as that.Yes, I mentioned that already.
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@d12dozr said:
@unknownuser said:
...Still not a real curve...
3D printers all have a print resolution. You just need to make sure your line segments in SU are smaller than that resolution. For example, Shapeways White, Strong & Flexible material has a print resolution of 0.2 mm, so you just make sure all your line segments are smaller than .02 mm and you're good.
Also, when you export to STL (which is what format most 3D printers use), the model is converted into a mesh, meaning true curves are lost anyway. This is true even if you model in Rhino or any software that uses real curves.
This I was not sure about, I did mention that I had not tried 3D printing myself. Good information for sure, thanks
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@ecuadorian said:
Still, Michael Gibson, who created Rhino as an employee for McNeel, has created a new modeler called MoI, completely rethinking the UI and way of working.
If something go wrong...
I ever think something like SketchUp ability + Moi curvy nurbs is ideal. Join force?
I bet they would gain a good amount from something like Kickstarter.com
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@unknownuser said:
@solo said:
@unknownuser said:
@unknownuser said:
Really, that fixes it? Never would have guessed.
Still not a real curve, no matter how many times you roll your eyes.you have to use another software if 100% true curves are required.
simple as that.Is 100% curve even possible?
yeah.. it is..
(though on screen it's not totally possible because pixels are square.. when output to a robot saw though, the cuts can be absolutely true)[edit] a sort of similar problem comes up in nurbs apps.. the surfaces shown on screen are actually render meshes.. basically, they look like sketchup surfaces.. but the underlying calculations are there so when output, the true surfaces will be cut/printed)… likewise, when inferencing and what not, sometimes things will appear not to line up in the nurbs app because of the render mesh being used to represent the surface whereas intersecting with the surface is actually determined by the true surface… basically, with nurbs apps, learn to trust the wires and ignore the surfaces
Knowing the 3d printer capabilities you can tweak the final output. All of my models for my side business Hobby Fuzion http://www.shapeways.com/shops/hobbyfuzion are made in Sketchup. Designed for the tabletop, the models are perfectly round to the touch and I use about a 64 segment circle for these to conserve polygon count (some are old and the early Shapeways had tighter poly limits that they have increased over the years). The original .STL plugin was from a request I made on the old @Last forums years ago
Course while the sample models are not very detailed on my shop (that was mainly due to resoluztion limits, not lack of Sketchup capacity), the test planet/moon model was a hollowed half-sphere base in Sketchup and surface detailed in Zbrush from a picture of the Moon made into an alpha brush. I've also made some jewlery for familiy (not shown) usine Shapeways silver printing that had curves without facets so it's doable. -
@findthong said:
@ecuadorian said:
Still, Michael Gibson, who created Rhino as an employee for McNeel, has created a new modeler called MoI, completely rethinking the UI and way of working.
If something go wrong...
I ever think something like SketchUp ability + Moi curvy nurbs is ideal. Join force?
I bet they would gain a good amount from something like Kickstarter.combasically, Moi is already that. I mean, it's not exactly sketchup like but at the same time, it does have a similar feel.
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@unknownuser said:
@d12dozr said:
3D printers all have a print resolution. You just need to make sure your line segments in SU are smaller than that resolution. For example, Shapeways White, Strong & Flexible material has a print resolution of 0.2 mm, so you just make sure all your line segments are smaller than .02 mm and you're good.
Also, when you export to STL (which is what format most 3D printers use), the model is converted into a mesh, meaning true curves are lost anyway. This is true even if you model in Rhino or any software that uses real curves.
This I was not sure about, I did mention that I had not tried 3D printing myself. Good information for sure, thanks
The advantage that Rhino (or similar tools) has over SU in this case is resolution is set when you export, and you can adjust it automatically. In SU, you have to preplan the resolution, and its not easy to edit if you need to.
Its also worth noting that only the model line segments need to be smaller than the printer resolution on curves - on flat surfaces the segments can be as long as you need them to be and the model won't look faceted.
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@unknownuser said:
basically, Moi is already that. I mean, it's not exactly sketchup like but at the same time, it does have a similar feel.
Interesting... I was try it long time ago and thought it just suitable for objects like furnitures.
Do you means Moi could also be use for doing full architectural modeling, with a lot of objects, in Moi3d ?
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@findthong said:
@unknownuser said:
basically, Moi is already that. I mean, it's not exactly sketchup like but at the same time, it does have a similar feel.
Interesting... I was try it long time ago and thought it just suitable for objects like furnitures.
Do you means Moi could also be use for doing full architectural modeling, with a lot of objects, in Moi3d ?
yeah.. maybe not quite yet.
it's lacking in groups/components as well as layers so the main problem with having a whole bunch of objects in moi is organizing them..
hopefully some of these types of features will come to moi.. -
@d12dozr said:
Also, when you export to STL (which is what format most 3D printers use), the model is converted into a mesh, meaning true curves are lost anyway. This is true even if you model in Rhino or any software that uses real curves.
yeah, i've seen that before (a model with a gazillion polys from rhino for 3d printing)
personally, i've never had anything printed in 3D.. my only experience with computer->robot has been with CNC..
in which case, i believe the cuts come out exactly as defined by the software (rhino in my case).. and if they aren't, if they're switched to segmentation, i definitely couldn't tell by looking at/feeling the cuts.. -
Normal: what's that again?
@mike lucey said:
@mark h. said:
@mike lucey said:
Just read through the - Transfer of licenses and personal data to Trimble - here, http://sketchup.google.com/usernotice.html
However I am still a little confused. I realise that its probably not possible to pin down a closing date. Certain times have been mentioned but nothing concrete. Would it not make more sense to have a 1 week post closing date dead line? This would in my opinion be more normal practice with these sort of things?
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@jason_maranto said:
At some point in the future anybody (as in layman) will be able to tell a computer exactly what type of buildings, rooms, furnishings, etc. they envision -- the computer will just adapt the design in realtime, and most likely be able to run complex simulations from this data that we can only dream of. Manual modeling will be redundant (for the most part).
@unknownuser said:
so i believe you're right.. many,many designers/architects/engineers etc may find themselves out of a job unless they step up their game..
I doubt that will ever happen. The average "lay-person" is just that...they lack the specialized knowledge that a designer/architect brings to the table. No computer program will ever replace that. Sure a software can facilitate in making thing and informing design decisions, but inputting parameters into a software and getting out a building or object will result in an ugly environment without the trained eye of a designer.
As it is, a "layman" can probably input parameters for a stair and get this:
http://www.cn-granite.com/upfiles/images/Construction%20Stone/Granite%20Stairs/Stair13-Indoor%20Granite%20Step%20&%20stair.jpgBut a designer can input parameters for a stair and get this:
http://www.contemporist.com/2011/11/21/cantilevered-stairs-by-nastasi-architects/ -
Funny how you trust a company with all your data and suddenly all of that is sold to another company and you must accept it if you want to keep using the product.
I'm not complaining, just pointing out a hard reality that is becoming increasingly common.
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@ecuadorian said:
Funny how you trust a company with all your data and suddenly all of that is sold to another company and you must accept it if you want to keep using the product.
I'm not complaining, just pointing out a hard reality that is becoming increasingly common.
especially with banks.. we basically have two or three banks left in the u.s.
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@ecuadorian said:
Funny how you trust a company with all your data and suddenly all of that is sold to another company and you must accept it if you want to keep using the product.
I'm not complaining, just pointing out a hard reality that is becoming increasingly common.
Which is a main reason I will NOT use Cloud computing, Facebook, etc. Theys gots U by the short and curlies.
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Regarding the continuing discussion on "true curves".....
Other than turning on a lathe, or drilling a hole, there is no such thing as a true curve in machining a part.
All manual mills and NC machines go from X1-Y1-Z1 to X2-Y2-Z2 in a discrete straight line.
That line may be very very short, and will look smooth when done. Just like the "smooth" face joins in SU.Keep the design segment length at or below the machines resolution, and the NC s/w will compensate to provide a smooth looking surface. But it is not smooth, and you can feel the flats, even if they were 1/1000 in. I've sent countless parts back for hand polishing to smooth a machined surface that had to be smooth, such as a mating face or a cam face, when I was in QC at an aircraft manufacturer.
Where a very smooth curve is actually needed, the designers leave excess material on that surface to be polished smooth in an NC grinder operation, which may go through multiple passes and grades of grit to get the end smoothness needed.
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