A new home for SketchUp
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@jbacus said:
Since this deal hasn't yet closed, there are specific legal restrictions that control what Trimble can say. That's why you don't see them here. Until then, you'll have to be satisfied with what's said on this site. You should expect to see more information added there as things progress.
John, we're really glad you are here answering questions, and we know you and the team are apparently all really happy with what has been promised/offered to you. It's not that we don't trust you, we (certainly I) haven't seen anything so far that gives mea any reason to trust Trimble. They may be good guys, but their website is a mess and it doesn't relate to to or engage end user customers in the slightest. It's vague, unfriendly, difficult to find stuff, and full of commercial speak that is almost meaningless
We've all seen mergers before where the staff are all really pleased, because it often means job security and direction, where previously it was lacking, and sometimes it also means more money. However, I've tried to look at what the company already does, as a means of giving me confidence that these are the guys to push SU forwards in ways we have all been dreaming of.
So far it's not looking good. No screenshots, no Mac versions, no galleries, no nice friendly product pages, no forums, no awe-inspiring 3d software portfolio. This is the public face of a company that is principally known for making survey equipment, and they think we're going to be enthused about the takeover on this basis? They don't even speak the same language! This sentence, "SketchUp and the 3D Warehouse, together with other Trimble Tools from Accubid, HHK, Meridian, Plancal, QuickPen, Tekla, Trimble Business Center and the Trimble Connected Community will provide a stand-alone and enterprise solution that will enable an integrated and seamless workflow to reduce rework and improve productivity for the customer" gives us some clues about some of the other apps Trimble have.
However they are a disparate bunch of totally separate applications, mainly related to building services, with minimal information about any of them and no evidence of a consistent corporate branding or integration strategy. Without exception, all the websites for these products are uniformly awful. How is this integration going to work? Obviously that's rhetorical
Are they proposing to make Mac versions of all their applications, or drop the SU Mac version, or basically leave the Mac version to stagnate without the stuff they are proposing to integrate.Most of us don't use 'field data models' and aren't terribly excited about 'project management tools'. We love SketchUp because it's creative, fun and easy.
I don't buy the argument that Trimble can't or won't say anything until the deal is done. What on earth is wrong with coming out with a nice reassuring statement saying something like, "Hi, we're Trimble, you might not have heard of us, but we've been doing this and that for such and such years, we're really excited to be taking on SketchUp, we know there is a vibrant community, we would like to reassure you that we aren't planning to kill off all the cool stuff. We love your enthusiasm and we're really looking forward to working with you all to make SketchUp a better product, with more relevance (or whatever) to you all for the future." Not exactly going to make the shareholders or investors run for the hills is it?
I'm not totally averse to the idea of integrating some new functionality from existing applications into a more advanced, building-specific version of SketchUp, with better support for site survey data and with integrated modules for structural and building services design in a BIM-type IFC compliant wrapper. I'm just not totally convinced that Trimble are the people to do it well without losing the things about SketchUp we all love.
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I always think that change is cathartic, and I am guardedly optimistic about this announcement. I was less than enthused about Google buying out @last, and certainly some of my initial fears turned out to be spot on.
Development of SU core features has been less than earth shattering under the Google watch. Yes, they fixed the shadow bug, solid tools was a great addition, layout was at least released finally, and the geo-locating is certainly useful. All great things individually, but, looked at over the time span of 6 years, it is a little lean.
However, the lack of meaningful development of Layout has been very disappointing to me, and, if not for all of our fantastic plug-in ninjas, the core features of SU have changed very little in the past 5-6 years. Performance has had incremental increases, which have been greatly appreciated from my end, but we all know that SU has a long way to go before it can really perform at a pro level for large poly models.
I always had the feeling that the development team was never given the freedom and cash to push push push.
This forum is littered with requests that have gone noticed but not at all acted on. I spent a lot of time compiling and posting about things I thought Layout could fine tune, and there was great response from the guys in Boulder, but, in the end, nothing changed. I fear for the future of Layout much more than I fear for the future of Sketchup. While I use it exclusively to generate my shop drawings and blueprints, the process has an undertone of frustration with the clunky dimensioning, shocking lack of hatching (are you kidding me?) and terrible performance in vector mode. and page numbering, hahaha.
The places where I thought SU could improve the most seem, on the surface anyway, as more likely to be addressed by Trimble than they were by Google. But, one wonders about a company that has been swallowing companies like a shark in a pool (3 already in 2012!) The idea of being able to integrate and making meaningful upgrades all while either subsuming or attempting to maintain myriad corporate structures and attitudes sounds incredibly difficult. It sure seems like Trimble decided to carve out a huge swath of BIM/GIS market share; what is less obvious is what they are going to do with all this new stuff and user base.
I guess I can stop holding my breath for a layout update anytime soon. Sigh... but with fingers crossed
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I really can't believe that people judge a company by just looking at their web site! Google doesn't even have a company site! You probably would have preferred Adobe to buy SU, right? Do you think it would be a free version anymore?
No one can tell today what SU will become tomorrow, so all the words and the apprehention is both useless and early, to me.
Let's use our SU v8 for now. We'll see how v9 will be.
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@bigstick said:
ommercial speak that is almost meaningless
What on earth is wrong with coming out with a nice reassuring statement saying something like, "Hi, we're Trimble, you might not have heard of us, but we've been doing this and that for such and such years, we're really excited to be taking on SketchUp, ."
They probably thought they did say that in their own way. You can see by their copy that they have professional marketing staff. That's how it typically comes out sounding.
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I remember when Google bought @Last. I was having pretty regular conversations with various SU Team members at @Last. Then one day is just stopped. Then an announcement is made that Google bought @Last. Then the @Last forums disappeared. I never got the message that it was migrating to Google Groups.
Never got an offical word of reassurance from Google about the acquisition and it took me 6 months to find SketchUcation where all the familiar people moved too. Many things changed after that some good but not all. A wall appeared between the SketchUp community and the SU team. It was not the SketchUp teams desire to do so but that was a Google directive. It took a little while to reconnect with various SU (now Google) team people.
SO, not having a Trimble official here to allay fears is not unusual . What are the fears here? SketchUp is not going away. But change for SketchUp is good . They did not go to Autodesk who would kill it or Apple who would try and make Siri model for you or Dessualt who would transform it into SketchUp Solids.
Trimble by all accounts is aligned with SketchUps core goal of a modeling tool for architecture and related industries. Yes, they have a website that is clearly directed towards engineering and products most of us have never heard. They have more in common with SU then Google ever did. Google had Earth but nothing else even related to what SketchUp was about.
The communication now , while not answering all our questions, is appreciated and we should take it at face value. The answers and changes will come. Even if someone from Trimble was here to tell us their plans I would have to wonder if they really knew. The fact that John is here talking should be a sign that the SU team is excited, cares about the product and is hearing what we are saying (John has echoed this).
The only other thing to do is be patient and stay engaged. Just my 2 cents.
Peace
Daniel Tal -
Chuck,
I've followed your work some, and you obviously know what you are doing. It's interesting you exclusively use LO when there are so many full CAD packages to choose from--and you don't like it. I too have hopes for LO and there are examples of users sucessfully embracing it as you do. Given the nature of SU--Layout looks like a robust addition to output from the simple SU format, added free to Pro users ($500 software at that). I am not critical, just interesting...
I also expressed a question how this could affect the next version schedule, but then where's the reason it should affect it at all? It could also mean: "Hey you guys are about to make an excellent update, Let's get that rolling as the SU version that introduces Trimble."
Regards, Peter
For those who rankle at Trimble's form in the announcement--here is a Cnet news snippet from when Google acquired AtLast:
@unknownuser said:
Terms of the deal were not disclosed and Google declined to further elaborate on the deal, other than to point to its company blog.
A Google spokeswoman, however, noted: "We can confirm that we have acquired @Last, and we are happy to welcome their talented team to Google."
I think few consumers are fully satisfied with the corporate approach. That's how it is.
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I would be very shocked if SketchUp 9 is not released in late summer this year -- at this point the development for it should be largely done and it should be in Beta testing as we speak.
Best,
Jason. -
Hi Peter, thanks for the vote of confidence! I have my good days, you know?
For me, Layout is the obvious answer for my shop drawings and I can make it do what I want in an interface I don't find as annoying or tedious. The functionality, of course, can be tedious and annoying, but I have to say that, over all, the benefits outweigh the negatives.
A large portion of my work involves 3D shop drawings for timber frames. Being able to dimension in Sketchup and then, using scenes, to set up my Layout docs really works great and the linked updating and replacing of files also works quite well for me, not to mention having the inference engine working between the two softwares.
Dimensioning, hatching, and the inability to dimension in perspective, however, are very big areas that need drastic improvement, in my opinion. And the inability to make paper space read out model dimensions is maddening. Way too much drawing in SU and then tracing in Layout (grid lines, anyone?).
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"remember when Google bought @Last . . . be patient and stay engaged . "
said Daniel Talcongratulations team SketchUp and hello Trimble
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@mrdentini said:
I really can't believe that people judge a company by just looking at their web site!
What other basis to we have right now? How do you assess any company or individual? If it's face to face, it's by what they say and how they say it, and to an extent how they look. If it's a company, you look at how they present themselves on the internet, in print, in reviews.
Have a look for the software applications quoted, and tell me that you have come away really excited.
I'm not saying change is bad by any means. Hell - I'm not even saying Trimble is bad either. We all have our views about how SU progressed under Google. It definitely improved, but perhaps we all expected that a company with the vast resources of Google and its reputation for hiring the smartest people, would make available the resources to push SketchUp far further than it did. Google's acquisition of SketchUp was different. It was a company we were all familiar with. We had all used its services and we all knew its values. We certainly knew that it was dedicated to giving away free applications. Admittedly you paid for this with your privacy, but for those of us who aren't rich or secretive, it was great! We know very little of Trimble. An analogy would be like a guy in a sharp suit and dark glasses who comes along to your favourite and much-loved coffee shop, slaps a sign on it saying 'Under new Management', and says "Thank you very much, we'll be in touch..."
I love SketchUp, I have been using it since V2. I was one of the very first users here in Wales in the UK, and it was a revelation. I really look forward to the times when I don't have to spend hours and hours writing documentation and managing my staff or my construction contracts, and I can play with SketchUp building 3d models of new buildings. And I use the word 'play' intentionally. SketchUp is the part of my job where I have the most fun and enjoyment!
I really want to be enthusiastic about the new ownership and new potential. Having looked into Trimble and their product portfolio, I can't see any joy or love or creativity or inspiration, and I'm not usually prone to hippy-type statements like this. So yeah, I need a bit of convincing from the dudes in the suits...
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Well it's 18 pages in on this thread, and I only just heard about this Trimble business from a coworker. I haven't posted here in a long time—haven't even been lurking actually. But I'm out from behind the bushes now to say I'm both scared and excited. SketchUp has been such a big part of my work life since V1.2.
Funny thing is, I read most of the posts in this thread and it seems like the same sentiments that I remember from the Google buyout. I was excited as I could be back then. This time, I'm trying to take it easy. This time I'm going to take it easy. This time. I need a paper bag.
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@unknownuser said:
This is what I hear with ear to the ground. Don't quote me. My hearing is bad
At the top of their list is a plan to capture ruby revenue. A panel will choose a select group of rubies and start to negotiate with the owners. This ruby set will be provided with a permanent front end in SU. You can bet they will be in the positioning application vertical.Since they are trying to capture a ruby revenue stream they will create a STK that must be used to develop and install/register. You will have to use their kit.
Then look for a complete name change in the new year. Trimble will attempt to raise the profile from blue jeans to shirt and tie. The “sketchy” reputation is something they will quickly position themselves to resolve. As for the name change. No serious Sketchup user will drop the tool because of a name change but new customers will turn their heads. The word Sketchup will disappear forever.
Roland I find your comments interesting, particularity so coming from someone that claims to have bad hearing. I suffer from the same infliction myself by the way.
What you say about SketchUp being 'beefed up' (maybe that could be the new name?) with the integration of popular existing rubies makes a certain amount of sense provided it is done properly. I am sure many users would welcome this, I for one would if it meant a more efficient way of working and I imagine the independent developers would be happy to work under new arrangements if fair terms were introduced. Currently the majority of them are operating on a donation system which is not delivering a fair return on time invested, in many cases, not even a 'thank you', which can mean a lot, is returned!
In my opinion the making of SketchUp a freeware was a for many independent Scripters a downer! While this move vastly expanded SketchUp's popularity and user base it also created a huge 'we want all free' attitude without at the same time offering any other means for revenue generation by Scripters. Professional and Semi-Professional Scripters need to eat and even the Amateur (in the true sense the word) Scripters like to receive some form of gratitude and recognition shown from time to time.
As regards a change of name goes, not that a product name is the be all and end all in itself, I very much doubt that Trimble would even consider changing an established trade name that has gained a Worldwide niche in design offices .... 'If its not broken, don't try to fix it!'.
On the other hand, I think I will be glad to see the overshadowing GOOGLE element of the current name going. While it added weight in many ways it also pigeon holed SketchUp Pro under the same category as Free SketchUp. I think with proper handling SketchUp in its current versions and possible future versions will flourish and become what it really should be at this point in time, a 3D Tool for all kinds of disciplines both at the preliminary stages of design and throughout the various development stages.
As regards the blue jeans being replaced by shirts and ties goes. Maybe Trimble like the blue jeans image! One of the most innovative and popular company leaders of late wore nothing other than blue jeans. In his case he also always combined it with a black turtleneck. This image helped to produce mass appeal to millions of Mac users around the World and actually still does even though Steve Jobs is no longer with us.
Personally I find it easier to get into creative mode when wearing casual clothes. I only wear the collar of tie when attending very stuffy engagements but I image the SketchUp Team have a suit in the wardrobe for such occasions also.I would like to think that Trimble wanted the total SketchUp package, including it's image and unique dedicated community to bring a new dimension to their business operations. Most things can be bought in this World but there is one thing that cannot be, only earned .... true dedication!
I often think this is an unnatural situation to be in but I and many others feel this way about SketchUp
as it opened up our ability to release creative skills that were being stiffed by cumbersome CAD apps back August 2000 when a small team of innovators worked hard on a dream to produce a special, against the grain, "3D for Everyone" application. I still remember my joy at producing a cottage model after a couple of hours fun and I get the same enjoyment today, 12 years later!Its early days yet in this transition, however I do not have the slightest worry that the SketchUp Development Team will not protect and further develop their 'baby' and believe me, these guys DO regard SketchUp as their baby .... again probably totally unnatural but that's the way it is
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So he (Mark Harrison) rides in, drops the bomb and scatters!
Not good.
Void of real assurance.
Doesn't stick around to answer some questons. Not good from a PR point. -
Honestly , I think developing a 2D component (Layout?) to Sketchup might just be one of the focuses Trimble has by just observing their background and current core business.
And I definitely applaud that.
I would love to be able to output CAD drawings more easily from SU, intuitively as we expect from Sketchup.
At the same time optimizing current 3D modeling (speed and high poly optimisation) and a good collaboration with the render engine developers (Vray etc..) and Bob is your uncle.Add some useful BIM plugins for people that need it (not me
) and I see a wonderful future for Sketchup.I have to admit, I don't like the 'corporate' looking abstract website.
Trimbles' website looks like one of those web templates you can download.
A lot of words without meaning.Perhaps the acquisition of Sketchup allows them to add some zzzing to what seems a dusty image.
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@kwistenbiebel said:
Perhaps the acquisition of Sketchup allows them to add some zzzing to what seems a dusty image.
Mmmmm, I could have save myself a lot of typing (above) if I had thought to just say that
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Don't see the synergy.
Do you get a free laser with a Pro purchase? -
I agree 100% with kwistenbiebel's calls for a 3d engine that works much better with a massive polygon count. Any BIM type development is definitely going to need it!
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@bigstick said:
I agree 100% with kwistenbiebel's calls for a 3d engine that works much better with a massive polygon count. Any BIM type development is definitely going to need it!
Most definitely.
In our office, Revit is rolled out as CAD and semi BIM application.
We notice that for projects where collaboration on one 'model' runs up to 8 people, the 'model' needs to be split up in parts referenced in as the software starts to crack with the huge amount of 3D data that is in there..
For example , a simple door component (a 'family' in Revit) has all the 3D information to the detail, making a file super heavy after a while.
My guess is that current Sketchup isn't up to that task.I can't imagine Sketchup becoming a full BIM application for this reason.
It is more plausible Sketchup remains a 3D tool in it's essence, with optimisations and extended tools that incorporates BIM elements.
I can't imagine Sketchup to become a next gen Revit.
And it would be boring as hell in the first place lolFor me personally,I find higher poly count optimisation more important in terms of allowing to use high poly 3D objects like trees, furniture etc, that enhance photorealism a lot when using the advanced render engines...
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