Sketchup is Inacurrate???
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@thomthom said:
You'd think it should be able to do that. It nearly does that.
If you draw a Circle - Entity Info says Circle, 24 segments.
Draw a line between two vertices of that circle and you get two arcs with 12 segmetns each.
Erase the edge between them and SketchUp merges the two arcs into a single Arc with 24 segments. Now here's the little extra head scratcher - save, close and reopen the file. Select the curve and notice that Entity Info once again says Circle. o_Ohaha.. nice find.. o_O indeed!
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@thomthom said:
If you draw a Circle - Entity Info says Circle, 24 segments.
Draw a line between two vertices of that circle and you get two arcs with 12 segmetns each.
Erase the edge between them and SketchUp merges the two arcs into a single Arc with 24 segments. Now here's the little extra head scratcher - save, close and reopen the file. Select the curve and notice that Entity Info once again says Circle. o_OI'm not seeing that. I still get an arc of 24 segments...exactly as when closed.
However, if I get to the stage of creating an arc of 24 segments and then copy either the face or the edge (or both) I get a new circle of 24 segments that is recognised as such. Seemingly the simple act of copying recreates a circle entity. -
@alan fraser said:
I'm not seeing that. I still get an arc of 24 segments...exactly as when closed.
Can you post the file? I'm curious to whether I can find the difference between our attempts. Ruby might help me.
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Strange! I just did it again in a fresh file and now I get a circle...but still with the correct entity info. Maybe the FormFonts layer is the magic ingredient.
I am on V. 8.0.16846. I assume you two are as well.
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"but still with the correct entity info"? As it says Circle after merged?
For me it said Arc until I reopened the file, then it said Circle. Your model opens with a "Circle". -
another quick point along these lines..
@thomthom said:
You'd think it should be able to do that. It nearly does that.
aside from the ability for an arc to always remain an arc, an offset arc should create a new arc.. for one, it makes too much sense for an offset of an arc to be an arc but it will also further tighten up a consistent behavior throughout sketchup..
if we draw a surface whose perimeters contain an arc(s) then push/pull the surface, the newly created edges will also be arcs..
so that should happen as well in an offset. -
I was wondering if the core problem with arches and the resulting shortcoming geometry is in fact what is keeping, or has kept, the developers from creating tools for curved surfaces?
Like e.g the in ability to provide any mapping for curved surfaces or the native lack of the push pull tool to perform an extrusion on a curved surface?@ TIG Out of an architectural standpoint, this is what I expect of how it needs to be.
The respective pieces of my arch need to be consistent and not perpendicular. Be it round or segmented same thing.
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Well, in theory we can create ourselves what SketchUp doesn't provide. Except some fundamental things such that we cannot introduce true curves - we cannot introduce new entity types. We can create abstractions. Like, in order to map curves surfaces and create ring and loop selections I wrote QuadFace Tools - which tries to build a toolkit that will let you create and manage non-planar quads. Similarly I'm developing BezierSurface, which allows you to create and manipulate (and UV map) quad-bezier-patches.
However, since there is no way to hook into the native tools to make them understand these new abstractions I'm doing, I need to write a complete set of tools for everything.
Mind you, aside from SketchUp's way of dealing with arcs, I find it's lack of the "quad" concept the most limiting. Everything becomes so much easier of surfaces are built up on units of quads. Mapping and traversing becomes logical and rational in terms of a computer - which doesn't have the insight to understand what the whole mesh really represent, only understanding the geometry on a the most naive level of vertices, edges and faces.
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Just a basic, try to draw 3 tangent circles with native tools and tell me how much time you spend.
Of course they must intersect.
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@desertraven said:
I was wondering if the core problem with arches and the resulting shortcoming geometry is in fact what is keeping, or has kept, the developers from creating tools for curved surfaces?
hm... you where perhaps talking about the developers of SketchUp instead of plugin developers?
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@gilles said:
Just a basic, try to draw 3 tangent circles with native tools and tell me how much time you spend.
Of course they must intersect.
haha
olav.. we need a better challenge .. i did that in 10 seconds using only the circle tool..
oops.. gilles posted that example..
%(#FFFFFF)[• using only the circle tool ---
• draw a 3 sided circle
• using each of the 3 vertices as center points, draw circles whose radii span to the midpoints of the triangle..] -
@thomthom said:
Well, in theory we can create ourselves what SketchUp doesn't provide. Except some fundamental things such that we cannot introduce true curves - we cannot introduce new entity types. We can create abstractions. Like, in order to map curves surfaces and create ring and loop selections I wrote QuadFace Tools - which tries to build a toolkit that will let you create and manage non-planar quads. Similarly I'm developing BezierSurface, which allows you to create and manipulate (and UV map) quad-bezier-patches.
However, since there is no way to hook into the native tools to make them understand these new abstractions I'm doing, I need to write a complete set of tools for everything.
Mind you, aside from SketchUp's way of dealing with arcs, I find it's lack of the "quad" concept the most limiting. Everything becomes so much easier of surfaces are built up on units of quads. Mapping and traversing becomes logical and rational in terms of a computer - which doesn't have the insight to understand what the whole mesh really represent, only understanding the geometry on a the most naive level of vertices, edges and faces.
I agree, there is alack of SU to create clean usable geometry. I used your quad tools and also some of TIG's tools to save the day.
I had a thought that I would like to convey to you guys, and that is SU has a tape measure tool, a protractor tool, to draw straight construction lines, BUT it does not have a compass tool.
Such a compass tool could help to snap on centers of any round geometry or it could help finding accurate intersections.Anyone who works in architecture and has ever measured a house "as is" knows that you have to make diagonal measurements to verify a floor-plans squareness or to measure a floor-plan accurately that is at any given angel.
Maybe that would be a do-able plug in? just a circular construction line consisting of a dotted line like the straight construction line with the maximum accuracy that SU can give? With a radius as parameter and that is able to intersect lines and construction lines?
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@thomthom said:
@desertraven said:
I was wondering if the core problem with arches and the resulting shortcoming geometry is in fact what is keeping, or has kept, the developers from creating tools for curved surfaces?
hm... you where perhaps talking about the developers of SketchUp instead of plugin developers?
Yes the SU developers. You guy's are doing a great job
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@gilles said:
Just a basic, try to draw 3 tangent circles with native tools and tell me how much time you spend.
Of course they must intersect.
10 sec?
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Indeed.
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@massimo said:
@gilles said:
Just a basic, try to draw 3 tangent circles with native tools and tell me how much time you spend.
Of course they must intersect.
10 sec?
If they are the same diameter, it's quite easy, draw a 3 sided polygon, make it a component, then draw a circle with e.g. 24 segments from each corner to the mid of each side of the polygon, voila!
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circles are not supposed to be equal and they must intersect.
well show me your files. -
@gilles said:
circles are not supposed to be equal and they must intersect.
well show me your files.oh.. i didn't get the part about unequal circles.. so all the results discussed so far look something like this
edit-- and we can't do 3 unequal circles in sketchup without using a plugin or a hack i'm not too fond of..
and even then, we'll only get true results in certain cases.. (and i might be saying some of this too soon without thinking it all the way through.. but feel free to prove me wrong )
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