Google is Listening!
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@unknownuser said:
I think the OBJ vs. COLLADA issue is a bit of a red herring argument. I'm not a big OBJ user but it seems to me that the point shouldn't be OBJ or COLLADA and which one should be included. There's a simple solution which is to just include both. COLLADA can be there in all it's glory for when people eventually (presumably) understand it's wonders and advantages but in the meantime OBJ could be there for people who can't quite wait until the world come around to using COLLADA.
-Brodie
YES thank you !
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I know Ron Popeil has invented many multi function devices like the pocket fisherman etc. and the Swiss Army knife should be in everyones camping gear, but seriously in todays day and age no one application will meet "everyones" varied needs. Sketchup will certainly NOT meet everyones needs and by the many comments here it is apparent that Many people have and use many other applications 3DStudio MAX, Maya, Blender, Cinema4d, Rhino, Softimage, XSI, Modo, ETC. ETC. ETC. as modeling software and the litany of rendering engines is growing daily, many of which are available as plug ins for Sketchup. The third party developers have written a plethora of ruby plugins and extensions for sketchup that ostensibly extend the functionality of Sketchup well beyond what anyone could have imagined just 3 years ago. We have numerous developers, technical supporters, and past @Last employees and current Google employees who visit and comment here in this private user forum. Sketchup is still by far the simplest 3d modeling application to use and with the free version and the GLOBAL user base the SKP file format is becoming a household name. Let's temper our comments and remember that the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. I made a post on the original SketchUP user forum Eight years ago which essentially went something like this "SketchUP has forever changed the way I produce and present my work to my clients" I am still using it nearly on daily basis and if you look at any recent architectural magazine that shows an architects proposed solution for XYZ project the likelihood that the image was in some way produced with SketchUP is high.
So ask yourself are you looking for SketchUP to replace 3dStudio Max or Softimage or Maya? It will never do that. Are there free applications out there that do compete on a functional level with the BIG ones YES Blender, Truespace etc. Lets be thankful for the recent additions in SU8, Let's be respectful when requesting software improvements. and Let's enjoy the software for all of the things that it does right which allows it to maintain it's place in our tool bag. Go and take a look at your tool chest I bet you have a hammer, a drill, some screw drivers, some pliers, some wrenches etc. Each of those tools serves a specific function. SketchUP is a tool and should only be one tool in your tool bag If you are serious about your craft you will find the best tool for each task and use that one. Use SketchUP where it is the best tool and use other applications where they are better.
Just my 2cents..
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@unknownuser said:
@rickgraham said:
My opinions -
- Last, but not least for me - you just can't take away features from the free version! It's just wrong. Perhaps by keeping them in and ENHANCING them in the paid version would entice users to upgrade to the paid version. I highly recommend the 'How to win friends and influence people' book.
Is this correct? Features were taken out of the free version of 8?
+2
Exactly which features were removed from 7 to 8?
- Last, but not least for me - you just can't take away features from the free version! It's just wrong. Perhaps by keeping them in and ENHANCING them in the paid version would entice users to upgrade to the paid version. I highly recommend the 'How to win friends and influence people' book.
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@unknownuser said:
I know Ron Popeil ... Just my 2cents.
Phil - I agree with your words. Hope you'll make the next BaseCamp. You were missed at the recent one.
Regards, Ross
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@unknownuser said:
So ask yourself are you looking for SketchUP to replace 3dStudio Max or Softimage or Maya? It will never do that. Are there free applications out there that do compete on a functional level with the BIG ones YES Blender, Truespace etc. Lets be thankful for the recent additions in SU8, Let's be respectful when requesting software improvements. and Let's enjoy the software for all of the things that it does right which allows it to maintain it's place in our tool bag. Go and take a look at your tool chest I bet you have a hammer, a drill, some screw drivers, some pliers, some wrenches etc. Each of those tools serves a specific function. SketchUP is a tool and should only be one tool in your tool bag If you are serious about your craft you will find the best tool for each task and use that one. Use SketchUP where it is the best tool and use other applications where they are better.
Just my 2cents..
Phil,
Well put. I think that there are those who may be asking too much of SU. Certainlythere are those who are asking too much from the free version. However, I do believe that there are a lot of requests which are quite reasonably within the scope of SU that are continually ignored. I believe that is the true frustration behind many of the comments. Google asks for suggestions and people pour forth with thought out rational requests both small and large. Then Google responds with a couple bug fixes, removes a feature, and adds some features that no one was looking for (in v7 it was dynamic blocks and in v8 it's the additional GE compatibility). Then Google comes back and asks us for more suggestions? It's like going to Subway and everytime you ask for mayo they give you lettuce and ask 'what else would you like?'
I think you make a good point that SU is one tool among many we should/must use. However, the way you describe it is pretty unique to SU users in a sense. If I'm going fishing, I need many tools (fishing pole, tackle, pliers, etc.), but I shouldn't need multiple fishing poles, for example, unless my needs are very specific. Similarly, if I'm presenting a 3d model I may need Pen/Paper (for design), AutoCAD (for 2d dimensioning), SU (for modeling), and Layout/Photoshop/Video editing software (for presentation). However, we shouldn't necessarily expect that we'll need to use multiple modeling softwares unless our needs are very specific (Zbrush for organic modeling perhaps). Being able to work on high poly models and the like aren't really what I'd consider specific (or specialized) uses and those are the things which are most requested.
-Brodie
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Man, all the whining going on you'd think that Sketchup costs money... In my mind the only people who have a right to gripe is the Sketchup Pro users and Ruby Plugin developers.
For all you users who want to gripe about the normal FREE version of Sketchup not being whatever you think it should be: Why don't you create something so useful and extensible as Sketchup(very unlikely) and then give it away for free, and see how magnanimous you feel when the unwashed masses come to your door bearing pitchforks demanding your head.
It's FREE! how ungrateful can you be?
Sketchup Pro users please disregard this message as it is not aimed at you.
Best,
Jason. -
@unknownuser said:
Google, you already have all the suggestions you need. Implement some of those and get back to us with v8.1, then we'll give you some more
Of the top ten suggestions from last fall's "Product Ideas" series, we implemented (or at least improved) about half in SU8– including Boolean modeling tools, color snapshots from Google Earth, and angular dimensions. We also improved toolbars and laid groundwork for poché in section cuts. Don't let the opportunity to pitch your ideas again pass by without our hearing your voice.
john
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@khai said:
I make Poser content as a base, but which it being OBJ can be loaded into any application that supports OBJ. eg Maya, Lightwave, Cinema4D, Max, Hexagon, Carrara, Vue, Softimage, Blender, Wings3D, .... the list goes on. of those apps only Softimage, Max.. I think Maya and Cinema read DAE. and even then it's not guaranteed as supported as OBJ. infact for UVmapping work the 2 major UVapps UVlayout and UVmapper only support OBJ!
but from your answers I'm not holding out much hope of getting the point across.
I think I get your point just fine. So what you want to do is make models in Poser that can be loaded into a SketchUp scene? According to this page (http://poser.smithmicro.com/poserpro.html) Poser Pro 2010 supports COLLADA import/export.
john
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@jbacus said:
@unknownuser said:
Google, you already have all the suggestions you need. Implement some of those and get back to us with v8.1, then we'll give you some more
Of the top ten suggestions from last fall's "Product Ideas" series, we implemented (or at least improved) about half in SU8– including Boolean modeling tools, color snapshots from Google Earth, and angular dimensions. We also improved toolbars and laid groundwork for poché in section cuts. Don't let the opportunity to pitch your ideas again pass by without our hearing your voice.
john
.I had to do a search to find the top ten list. I found your threads at the SU help forum (http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/sketchup/label?lid=6921451b4657bdbb&hl=en). For others wondering, here it is. They seem to be in no particular order (* means it got some attention in v8)...
Angular Dimensions*
Realtime lighting
Improve Layers
Improve toolbars*
Ruby plugin manager
Filled section cuts
Boolean tools*
Faster performance
Color snapshot from Google Earth*
??? (I only found 9 threads)I didn't see any mention of why these were the top ten though. Were they the most requested? The ones SU thought were the best? I think it's a pretty good list personally (there are some things on there I don't care about but I think they're all improvements to the program and could understand why people might want them) and assuming there is some legit reason why those particular things got on the top ten (bool tools surprises me but I wasn't the one doing the polling. And UV mapping didn't make the list? Perhaps I missed it.) it's good to see that you did respond to several of those issues. It's encouraging to see some things on that list and hope that they may be answered in the future as the others have been.
I wonder, in light of this info - as we, then, continue to make suggestions, is it any good to keep harping on things like poly count, speed, ruby integrations, etc. since they're already on the list? I guess I could think of some other things but it feels like until these big ticket issues are knocked off the list it seems superfluous to bring up smaller issues (lest you spend your time on the small issues rather than tackling the big ones, as I'm afraid I personally feel seems to have happened with this major release).
-Brodie
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By the way, John, I really appreciate you discussing these topics here. Had I known about the series of threads you'd created over at SU Help Forums I may have commented but there's really not a whole lot going on over there (as evidenced by the number of replies which were made to those threads). I hope that the interactions you've begun to make with us here are the beginning of many more in the future. I've no doubt that had you made those same threads here on SketchUcation, you would have received much more response from the users here and, at the very least, the changes that were made in v8 would have had more context.
-Brodie
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@jason_maranto said:
Man, all the whining going on you'd think that Sketchup costs money... In my mind the only people who have a right to gripe is the Sketchup Pro users and Ruby Plugin developers.
For all you users who want to gripe about the normal FREE version of Sketchup not being whatever you think it should be: Why don't you create something so useful and extensible as Sketchup(very unlikely) and then give it away for free, and see how magnanimous you feel when the unwashed masses come to your door bearing pitchforks demanding your head.
It's FREE! how ungrateful can you be?
Sketchup Pro users please disregard this message as it is not aimed at you.
Best,
Jason.The same stupid argument you make against the free users can be made against the Pro users. Why don't the pro users go out and create the Sketchup Pro beater and sell that for $500?
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@johnsenior1973 said:
@jason_maranto said:
Man, all the whining going on you'd think that Sketchup costs money... In my mind the only people who have a right to gripe is the Sketchup Pro users and Ruby Plugin developers.
For all you users who want to gripe about the normal FREE version of Sketchup not being whatever you think it should be: Why don't you create something so useful and extensible as Sketchup(very unlikely) and then give it away for free, and see how magnanimous you feel when the unwashed masses come to your door bearing pitchforks demanding your head.
It's FREE! how ungrateful can you be?
Sketchup Pro users please disregard this message as it is not aimed at you.
Best,
Jason.The same stupid argument you make against the free users can be made against the Pro users. Why don't the pro users go out and create the Sketchup Pro beater and sell that for $500?
I think we all have a right to voice opinions and frustration. Whether we pay for the product or not (I happen to be a Pro user) Google still gets something out of the deal. Free users are still improving Google's image and foothold in the marketplace. They also probably account for the vast majority of user built Google Earth buildings which is like having your own huge workforce of elves (the shoe business has all gone to China afterall) which work for "free".
I for one, would be very much in favor, though, of a much wider gap between the free and Pro versions. I understand the free version being created such that anyone can sit down and use it (and SU has done a wonderful job in that area). But I'd like to see the Pro version begin to be just that, a version for professionals (more professional tools, options, custimization, performance, etc.). I don't think anyone could fault SU for that.
For example, there has been a comment made by Google (John I believe) that some performance upgrade or other was unfeasible because of SketchUp's extremely broad user base which may not have access to good quality GPU's and such. I see validity in that for the free version, but I think it's reasonable to assume that for Pro's or any enthusiast willing to shell out $500, it's a different story.
-Brodie
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@pixero said:
As I said, SU is a great modelling tool and I believe you should rely on the community to enhance it by giving them even more access to SketchUp api.
nod vigorously
@pixero said:
Who knows, Thomthom might even come up with a solution for better UV tools.
Have you been poking around in my hard-drive?
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What would really make me happy is:
**1) support for high poly models, even just better navigation.
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better texturing tools, projection is very limited (yeah i know thomthom plugins work but we need more, I'd love to 'paint' textures onto surfaces)
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ability to open SketchUp at whatever reolution you like. So when it starts up you could just type 1024x768 for example. at the moment it opens at 1024 x739.
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multi-core support. How come it doesn't have this already?
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all plugins in one place.....a website that is. Like a list on the google wesbite that will link you to all the plugins available.
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Better support for textures, sometimes when you turn textures on it can cause the model to crash or move VERY slowly (I know this has been improved, but still its pretty bad)**
Other than that, congratulations on a fantastically intuitive modeling software
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@unknownuser said:
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support for high poly models, even just better navigation.
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better texturing tools, projection is very limited (yeah i know thomthom plugins work but we need more, I'd love to 'paint' textures onto surfaces)
These two points are my greatest desires also... texture layering and editing through a paint tool within Sketchup would be tremendous... Proper supported UV unwrapping would be enough however...
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@olishea said:
, I'd love to 'paint' textures onto surfaces)
Like you do in Photoshop when importing 3d models? Is that what you mean by painting?
@olishea said:
- ability to open SketchUp at whatever reolution you like. So when it starts up you could just type 1024x768 for example. at the moment it opens at 1024 x739.
Gaieus use a nice utility for that - lets you size any application to a fixed size. Don't remember what it was called now.
@olishea said:
- multi-core support. How come it doesn't have this already?
Also not something that's a magic bullet or something one just switch to "on". Multi-core is difficult and in many cases not applicable. This is what John meant by when he'd like to see people ask for what they'd like to see as result - not the technical implementation itself. This request falls inline with #1 - better performance.
@olishea said:
- all plugins in one place.....a website that is. Like a list on the google wesbite that will link you to all the plugins available.
Would love to see a repository where one could upload plugins and be able to download from SU. And SU'd notify about updates. Like the package manager in Linux distributions.
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@unknownuser said:
...but still, what are you going to gain from more memory?
Maybe not important for everyone, but one simply reason for me, going to 64-bit SU would allow 64-bit renderer work in context of SU. It's already possible to create a SU scene that will not render with SU integrated 32-bit renderer, because of memory restrictions.
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@adamb said:
@thomthom said:
@adamb said:
Like Jeff Hammond, I struggle to understand what workflow using SU requires 2 GB of memory. I'd say your workflow needs looking at.
When you export really large 2d exports that memory usage easily run up to that point - nothing to do with the workflow. But that's about the only area where SU itself run into the memory issue. Mostly it's when using render engines that run inside SU's process.
I don't understand. 10000 pixel * 10000 pixel * RGBA is 400MBytes. You're doing images larger than this? Mad.
EDIT: OK perhaps not Mad. But surprising.
Memory use can be high with relight, displacement and so... not to forget full spectral engines.
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@jbacus said:
@khai said:
I make Poser content as a base, but which it being OBJ can be loaded into any application that supports OBJ. eg Maya, Lightwave, Cinema4D, Max, Hexagon, Carrara, Vue, Softimage, Blender, Wings3D, .... the list goes on. of those apps only Softimage, Max.. I think Maya and Cinema read DAE. and even then it's not guaranteed as supported as OBJ. infact for UVmapping work the 2 major UVapps UVlayout and UVmapper only support OBJ!
but from your answers I'm not holding out much hope of getting the point across.
I think I get your point just fine. So what you want to do is make models in Poser that can be loaded into a SketchUp scene? According to this page (http://poser.smithmicro.com/poserpro.html) Poser Pro 2010 supports COLLADA import/export.
john
.edit oh forget it.
my question orginally was about the logic of the choice. now it's just lost.
I get it. you prefer Collada even tho it is a poorly supported format at this time.
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