Google is Listening!
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If google is listening, then let’s talk to google !
I think that everyone (mostly) around here, will be agree to say that what makes the attractive force of SketchUp was Innovation, and that concept left the program sometimes ago, sadly.
What I mean is that there are many way to make things in the same time more rich, while keeping them simple.
Actually, when someone says on the forum “we should add this function”, I'm really sad to see that there is always someone to respond “no, no, keep sketchup simple”... that classical answer clearly shows that there’s no innovative research in term of interface going on.For example, let’s continue to talk about the “push pull” tool, the emblematic one.
At first, it was only made to extrude simple faces, and that was a genius approach. But as usage evolves, people are facing new situations, and have, in that case, to push pull far more than just a face : a complex surface, a series of non attached faces, a line, and so on. So, Ruby developers have create tools, separately, that respond efficiently to each problematic.To me, Ruby tools like that should only be necessary as a kind of transition element, before an upgrade that resolve the problem they were pointing (and I say that with great great respect to all the Ruby developers... their work would be more interesting if they didn’t have to fight everytime with originally unsolved problems).
So, in the case of the “push pull”, in 2010 it should be a kind of multipurpose and intelligent tool, that is able to extrude about everything, regarding to the context. It will greatly help new user, by assisting their hand efficiently, and it will boost the productivity of pro user by reducing the amount of operation necessary to make one simple action.
It's really strange to see that no one is ever mentioning the fact that the base of SketchUp could evolve...SketchUp way of handling situation is not some kind of sacred text. The original set of tool was good when it was released, many years ago, but it have to evolve. Creating new function does not mean adding modified old tools to the program, but rethinking the way the original funtion was working....and that should be the job of the developers (no offense...).
I don't like to talk about others software, but programs like Inventor Fusion or spaceclaim, try to find new approach, by making the program more clever, in order to make things more simple, while still really powerful.I’m aware that research and development are an expensive process, that’s why I agree on a previous post, that call for a bigger gap between pro and free version (sorry...).
So, thank you Google for you’re attention ( it sounds so cool to say that...), and please, give to sketchup the means to be the application it could (and should) be !
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I think you might be missing me when I say keep it simple.
In actuality, what I'm suggesting is probably a lot more complex than adding a bunch of new tools
I'm talking more along the lines of making sketchup a platform instead of a bloated app. I mean, aren't there already enough bloated apps out there for you to choose from?
I interpret a lot of these feature request along the lines of 'i want sketchup to do what xxxxx.app does. I'm comfortable using sketchup and don't want to learn a new app that can already do what I'm looking for. "
Like you want sketchup to grow with you while ignoring the very things that attracted you to it in the first place.
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@ Wip....I've nothing more to say.....
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Some general observations with regards to this thread:
1- I believe that the initiation of "Google SketchUp Questions and Ideas" is acknowledgement by Boulder (not meaning Google at large) that they'd like a better means of gaging what users want and how to accommodate a "sustainable" product and adhere to financial "well-being". It is not the loudest voice heard but usually the sum of all voices that is heard. "Google SketchUp Quesions and Ideas" may be the hearing-aid they are looking for. I am not fond of its format, but will give it a try.
2- The fact that they opened up Ruby programming should have been the handwriting on the wall ... they want to keep the tools and interface philosophy close to their legacy look as possible, afterall that is part of what appealed to people to begin with. As some of us may remember, FollowMe was around for a while before it became a formal tool ... you just had to know where to access it. But it took a while to release it. Ruby has allowed a more informal way for other talented people to provide the "Pro" users with better tools without depending upon version releases or priorities beyond their control. That said, I really, really hope that Boulder will invest more heavily in supporting the Ruby programmers in whatever way possible, including Layout **{**ie., more hooks into the core program, direct access to the software engineers, a QA review by Boulder of scripts (if the author so desires) so the scripts could a receive "official certification", etc. }.
3- It seems that as a program matures, that criticism of it rises at a increasing rate. I have participated in various forums and beta tested a couple of 2D apps for periods of 3 or 4 years each and it is ALWAYS the same. I attribute a large part of this is due a program's basic flexibility and appeal to a large number of people with diverse needs. As the user-base develops their own workflows, so does their dependency and passion. It is the Catch-22 of good software. When product managers and their staff listen and engage their user-base, the better the program becomes as it matures. It is my perception that for the last year or so Boulder has been more engaging.
4- I do agree that having better built-in animation capabilities and camera tools are just as important as the geometry contained in the model. A design will be better understood when viewed by the client, audience, or when viewed "unsupervised" via the SU-viewer.
Regards, John
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Just one more thing before I get back to work.
Taking the path of 'add all this stuff for ME' doesn't seem too productive and/or likely. Put yourself in the developers shoes and try to understand their vision. Personally, I would love to bloat the he'll out of sketchup as long as it was tailored to my personal needs. If i try consider everybody, which I think google does (ranging from beginners to advanced modelers) then, while I may understand some of the demands of the expert users- in all likelihood I'm not going to cater to them when they are such a small part of the user base. That balance is important to understand when making demands and I personally feel it's better to discuss ideas that include all users. Sketchup is going to remain simple wether you like it or not but it'd would be nice if the individual user could complicate it to their liking.
(sorry about the choppy typing etc. I'm on a phone)
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Just attended the 3d basecamp in Boulder...one of the requests for both sketchup 7 and 8 was the ability to Poche. I have 2 work around methods. I have posted a tutorial on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfGwVwkR7yE
Thanks
Bob -
Jeff, are you afraid to criticize Google or something? Well sorry, But Google HAS TO listen to ALL users and do have to make decisions in which way the software has to develop. That's all. But let it develop! There are modeling tools that everyone can use...in every field....like for instance a more clever push-pull tool...
Where is Ladybugz?
ps; don't misunderstand me...I want to have a tattoo of the Sketchup-logo on my forehead...I love it...but it seams that they have lost something...
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Not afraid to criticize as I've done so in the past. A lot of the criticism in the thread are just rants that aren't going to accomplish anything and simply set up the rantee for more disappointment down the line.
I've chosen to stick with sketchup (well I'm studying rhino now to handle some of my more complicated needs) so in essence, I've chosen to stick with the way sketchup is being developed. I'm just not in the mood lately for bitching about a piece if software. Especially when I feel a straight rant isn't going to help a thing. -
At Bop Pineo.
EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT tutorial!!! I crown you the Aidan Choppra of SketchUcation.
Thank you.Can you post a link to your video in the SketchUp Tutorial forum as well?
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Wanna hear a rant though? I'm so sick of people demanding all these visualization functions so they can beautify their rather stale drawing ideas.
that's about the most boring building I've seen in my life but hey look!, it's really similar to a photograph. Wonderful... Not
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@unknownuser said:
Wanna hear a rant though? I'm so sick of people demanding all these visualization functions so they can beautify their rather stale drawing ideas.
that's about the most boring building I've seen in my life but hey look!, it's really similar to a photograph. Wonderful... Not
Yes, we definitly need a "Uglify" plugin.
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@mrwip said:
Actually, when someone says on the forum “we should add this function”, I'm really sad to see that there is always someone to respond “no, no, keep sketchup simple”... that classical answer clearly shows that there’s no innovative research in term of interface going on.
What a load of arrogant nonsense! It is precisely SketchUp's innovative interface that makes SU so easy to use. My 6 year-old daughter was building houses within 20 minutes of first using SU's innovative interface. How many other titles out there can claim this? Blender? 3DS Max? Cinema 4D? Heck! I can't even figure these apps out straight away, yet alone a 6 year old child! Drown SU in multifaceted buttons and devices, and the interface bombs.
Look at any design which has lasted. Take the humble transistor FM radio. An on/off button. A volume control, and a tuning dial. Simple as anything, but it works, and is reliable. You can turn it on and be listening to the radio straight away. Anything with menus and a over complicated interface, and you're ready to throw the damn thing out of the window (DAB for eg).
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@unknownuser said:
Just one more thing before I get back to work.
Taking the path of 'add all this stuff for ME' doesn't seem too productive and/or likely. Put yourself in the developers shoes and try to understand their vision. Personally, I would love to bloat the he'll out of sketchup as long as it was tailored to my personal needs. If i try consider everybody, which I think google does (ranging from beginners to advanced modelers) then, while I may understand some of the demands of the expert users- in all likelihood I'm not going to cater to them when they are such a small part of the user base. That balance is important to understand when making demands and I personally feel it's better to discuss ideas that include all users. Sketchup is going to remain simple wether you like it or not but it'd would be nice if the individual user could complicate it to their liking.
(sorry about the choppy typing etc. I'm on a phone)
+1 from me.
While its all showing willing of the Google guys to have this laundry list of stuff people would like, you cannot get away from the fact that everything has a cost and there is finite resource with which to deliver.
Over many years in software development I've always found that if you ask people to bang out wishlists with no 'price' to them, you kinda get junk.
Having said that, this brick bat session over the last few days does seem to have crystallized around a small number of key areas/features that seem to have broad appeal. I hope we can get some transparency and a publicly available, "live" roadmap document from the Boulder guys.
Pretty please!
Adam
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@unknownuser said:
Wanna hear a rant though? I'm so sick of people demanding all these visualization functions so they can beautify their rather stale drawing ideas.
that's about the most boring building I've seen in my life but hey look!, it's really similar to a photograph. Wonderful... Not
Spot on Jeff!
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@tfdesign said:
@mrwip said:
Actually, when someone says on the forum “we should add this function”, I'm really sad to see that there is always someone to respond “no, no, keep sketchup simple”... that classical answer clearly shows that there’s no innovative research in term of interface going on.
What a load of arrogant nonsense! It is precisely SketchUp's innovative interface that makes SU so easy to use. My 6 year-old daughter was building houses within 20 minutes of first using SU's innovative interface. How many other titles out there can claim this? Blender? 3DS Max? Cinema 4D? Heck! I can't even figure these apps out straight away, yet alone a 6 year old child! Drown SU in multifaceted buttons and devices, and the interface bombs.
Look at any design which has lasted. Take the humble transistor FM radio. An on/off button. A volume control, and a tuning dial. Simple as anything, but it works, and is reliable. You can turn it on and be listening to the radio straight away. Anything with menus and a over complicated interface, and you're ready to throw the damn thing out of the window (DAB for eg).
But if SketchUp was the Jeep of CAD. ie Totally bullet proof, totally stable, whatever you throw at it, it keeps on coming back for more, and did just what it said on the can and no more, I'd agree with you.
But while we all love SketchUp, its by no means bullet proof.. so it slightly falls between 2 camps: Neither the tough workhorse, nor the fancy higher order surfaces design tool.
Adam
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@bobpineo said:
I have 2 work around methods. I have posted a tutorial on youtube.
Great, Bob, thank you
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@adamb said:
But while we all love SketchUp, its by no means bullet proof.. so it slightly falls between 2 camps: Neither the tough workhorse, nor the fancy higher order surfaces design tool.
I kind of agree, but for now it does (almost) everything I want it to do. But it's like that hammer argument set out by Thom, SU is only a tool, part of a bag of tools. If you engineer too much into one software title, you then, if you are new to that title, have a very steep learning curve. It's important to have tools that can complete 100% of the job, but that need just a little more thinking about- and that's where the plugin comes in.
Personally I'm not too keen on too many plugins, because I am then forced to think like the programmer who made them, and some think in other ways to the rest. Again, I'm with Jeff, where I think that you should be able to bloat SU as much as you like, or like me, keep it as simple as possible. To me that is a great plus (+) for SU.
PS, Adam, I'm originally from Lewes.
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@unknownuser said:
Wanna hear a rant though? I'm so sick of people demanding all these visualization functions so they can beautify their rather stale drawing ideas.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but are you talking about requests for better UV mapping?
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No.
Pretty much all the stuff that would noticeably improve by sketchup being 64 bit. (as I understand)But really, my 'rant' was more of a get back at someone who took a stab at me earlier in the thread.
Pay no attention to it.
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