Which CAD program?
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Hi there!
I’m about to start my own company, and am checking the market for optimal CAD program.
I started out 5 years ago with SketchUp Pro, which I bought and loved.
The recent years I’ve been working in an office that use PC and MicroStation, but I’m a whole hearted Mac person, so I’m looking for a program for Mac.
In short my work is space design for companies. I look at the space available, give advice on how to use it in the best way, with regards for knowledge sharing, etc.
A normal job would include me getting dwg files of the space; moving same walls, maybe putting in a kitchenette, etc. Never any real housebuilding.
I then do the interior decorating in 2D, make sure there’s enough room for everybody working there etc.
For the presentation I show the overall view in 2D, some details in 3D, and then reference photos of the furniture etc. This I do in InDesign.
My question is: I’m looking at ArchiCad as my first choice. But – I can’t seem to get an answer from anybody outside the SketchUp forum when I ask why SketchUp is not enough? It’s a program that I’ve already paid for, and that I know and love. ArchiCad is SO expensive, and I cant figure out if I really get my moneys worth.
My feeling is that it’s some kind of snobbish anti-SU attitude, often from people who haven’t even tried it. But still I have to be taken seriously with my costumers.
Does anybody out there do a job as I’ve described it, using only SketchUp? What can the other CAD programs offer extra?
Is there anything that I should be aware of?
My clients normally use AutoCad.
I hope to hear from you – best regards lene -
Have you looked at Vectorworks?
They do a 30 day trial.
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TurboCAD - very good price, different versions and excellent support for SketchUP and DWG files.
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If you are not doing technical drawings for construction (my opinion not shared by everyone), I can not think of a reason that SU, LO, Google's 3d warehouse, and this forum won't do it for you.
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Hi Lene.
Stick with what you know- ie SketchUp Pro. As you know, SU is a brilliant piece of software. If you need to make models (real ones that is), I'd go for an ACIS/Parasolid based applications such as Shark FX, Vectorworks or Form Z (Form Z allows you to do very complex folding, so you could print something off, then with a bit of folding, turn that into a model house or whatever), but for now, you'll probably find that SketchUp will fit your needs perfectly
If you need 2D, I highly recommend (if you can afford it) PowerCADD 8, which has possibly the easiest and most powerful set of drafting tools around, at any price (I would rate PowerCADD far higher in ability, than AutoCAD). Also have a look at HighDesign and QCad, the latter being only $30 to purchase, and it's actually very good- if you can get around the ugly, windows-looking interface.
Tom
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@lene_iacobe said:
What can the other CAD programs offer extra?
SU is neither CAD nor AEC/BIM but 3D sketching of facetted meshes similar to e.g. Form•Z or render/raytracing apps.
If you need 2D and/or exact 3D NURBS data under OSX, you surely may want check ViaCAD/Shark... incl. SU import and starting for pocket money.
hth,
Norbert -
I have been using Vectorworks for a long time (it was called Minicad when I bought it) on my Mac, and am also reasonably proficient at some of the AutoCad products. I am also really impressed with ArchiCad, a very impressive program.
Vectorworks has handled dfx/dwg translations very well, and has done for years, in fact I still am called upon to open dfx files that others are having problems with. I have also had no complaints from the engineers etc we deal with when I send them Vectorworks in dfx/dwg format, which is very important.
It's 3d capabilities are very good, although complex roofs etc may require you to do more than just just use the "create roof from walls " menu, but when it is set up correctly you are creating the 3d view when you are doing the 2d drafting. However, it is not SketchUp when it comes to the ease of use and ability to be able to present things well and quickly, and there is a fairly steep learning curve, as with all cad programs.
From what you are saying, it sounds like you have a fairly well developed workflow as it is, and I think that you would find the cad programs quite frustrating unless you got some substantial initial training. -
I teach part time at a local university and get the chance to play around with a lot of software. ArchiCad and Revit are fully integrated 2d-3d programs with a lot of horse power, large learning curve and are very costly. They give great results and provide a wealth of data but require a lot of input work. The company I work for has looked into Revit, but none of the engineering consultants we use are into it. The program makes more sense in a large company where all disciplines are on the program and makes more sence for larger projects. I think for a small start up firm it may work for you being a Revit specialist and hire out that way. If you will be doing smaller commercial/residential buildings,using Revit/ArchiCad will be killing ants with a hammer (IMHO)
I have been using sketchup and autocad together sucesfully, not really BIM but we do 3,000 to 10,000 sq. ft. buildings- mostly one or two stories. We use Autocad as do all of our consultants.
Autocad isn't cheap either. Some compatable alternates to Autocad have been mentioned here. If you have time try some 30 day trials. One that I have found may have great potential is Double Cad XT. They have a free version and the pro version is feature laden, very compatable with autocad and they company has tutorials on using sketchup with Double Cad. Really worth looking at.
Good luck in starting you new venture - it is an exciting time. Keep in touch about what you find!!!
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Hi Lene,
I am proficient in the following CAD, B.I.M., & modeling programs.
AutoCad (cad program)
Revit (B.I.M.)
Cheif Architect (B.I.M.
Archicad (B.I.M.)
Sketchup
(Fun 3d modeling Program)Based on the description you provided of the work you are doing I would not recommend
a B.I.M. program.B.I.M.
They are very costly, have a large learning curve and require
a steadfast diligence in maintaining modeling standards if they are to be useful.
Larger companies that can devote a cad managers time to keeping these large animals
under control can benefit from the process, but I have yet to see smaller companies
use the programs to there full extent. Many times they end up just being very expensive
cad programs. I currently am employed by a company that uses Archicad.
If you were going to go with a B.I.M Program you should take a hard look at Chief Architect.
Residential based, relatively inexpensive, & pretty darn easy to use.CAD
If you often share dwg files and you are using SU for modeling than it seems to
make since to go the Autocad route. It is a very good drafting tool. It also has the benefit of
being very possibly the most used program out there.I would not be surprised to see a Sketchup inti-graded cad program pop up before too long.
Wouldn't that be wonderful!Good luck, & keep it simple.
p
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If Chief Architect is a consideration also take a look at SoftPLAN which you may find to be as good or better.
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@pmolson said:
keep it simple.
recommending AC?
btw:
@lene_iacobe said:
...but I’m a whole hearted Mac person, so I’m looking for a program for Mac.
N.
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I used Chief Architect for some years since V7 but went away from it after V9 because it was too rigid. I needed a program that was as flexible as possible and one that could integrate with SU.....
So I chose Spirit STI http://www.softtech.com
Even though there doesn't seem to be much on the website, the program integrates with SU both ways and is quite easy to get around.....EDIT: I see you use MAC, Spirit is a windows based program if you're happy to partition you HD...
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@utiler said:
EDIT: I see you use MAC, Spirit is a windows based program if you're happy to partition you HD...
Q; When is a Mac (not "MAC"!!!
), not a Mac?A; When it is booting into Windows!!!
It makes sense (it really does!), if you are going down the route of Windows, then get a PC, and NOT a Mac!! It is a complete waste of money, time and effort to use Bootcamp. It is better, and more efficient, to have both machines running side-by-side.
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Sounds like you love your Mac, MAC?
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Well, all this shows is that lots of people use lots of different CAD programs....
But, i think you should have a look at rhino - not only is it an amazing 3D nurbs modeller, but its 2D toolset is very very good - you can download V4 and use it as long as you like - it just stops saving after 25 saves.
McNeel is a great company (similar in some ways to the @last company that developed sketchup) - their rhino forum is extremely helpful, and the developers are always on there. Its autocad translation is extremely good, and always up to date, and it is a lot easier to use than autocad.
it also compliments Sketchup very well, reads and writes sketchup files, and can do all sorts of curvy stuff that sktchup is hopeless at - the two programs together are all i need for sure, and i think you could do a lot worse (like vectorworks & doublecad for example, which in my opinion are horrible programs)Rhino 4 and the beta V5 (which you can download and use once you have purchased V4) are PC only, but also in beta, which you can download and use for free, is a mac version. this will be due for release sometime after V5 for the PC is released, which will likely be towards the latter part of 2010.
Also, at $995.00 it is a bargain...no subscriptions etc..
Finally, it is not a silly idea to use bootcamp on a MAC at all; in fact a lot of people use MAC's without ever using the mac os at all - this is because the Mac hardware and build quality is very good compared to many other, espically laptop, companies.
cheers
rabbit -
@rabbit said:
Finally, it is not a silly idea to use bootcamp on a MAC at all; in fact a lot of people use MAC's without ever using the mac os at all - this is because the Mac hardware and build quality is very good compared to many other, espically laptop, companies.
Yes, Apple hardware is fairly well built- this Macbook Pro has been on 24/7 for the last 4 years- and it is still working (unlike my shite HP laptop, which both PSU and hard drive and screen have already died, having said that, the DVD writer has been playing up a bit recently), but then if I had bought say a Sony Vaio, that too would still be working. But a Sony is cheaper than an Apple. You buy an Apple for it's operating system- Mac OSX!! It's madness to buy a Mac just to run Windows- you, if only to run windows, are simply buying it for a 'pose', because the glowing Apple logo against the silver backdrop says "Look at me. I'm a creative kind of guy"! "Look, I'm... err,.... running Windows
"!!! 
Rabbit, I'm sorry for being so pernickety, but why do you (and all other guilty parties) keep writing "Mac" as "MAC"? I'm completely confused.
"Mac" is an abbreviation of "Macintosh". MAC is something completely different. ie "MAC address"- which, btw, Macintosh also posses. Where is the emoticon for banging one's head against the table??! Can anyone please tell me why they always use MAC rather than Mac?
And yes, you are right, Rhino is very good, and I really respect McNeel for getting the application right before release
Tom
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Hmmm... Tom, what are you smoking in that pipe...?
mac, Mac, MAC....whatever, never thought about it, no doubt you are right.
I think really that , when you say your macbbook pro has been chugging it out for the last four years 24/7 then that just supports my case. you say a sony would still be working also, - who knows? maybe it would.
Between us my partner and I currently have four laptops - two acers, one hp, and one mac.
The oldest is a acer travelmate, that finally stopped working after about about 8 years.
The other acer is still going after about four years, the macbook is great after about 2.5 years, and the hp, which was the most expensive and highest spec, has ongoing problems after less than two years - the power supply died, now the screen has died (a known problem apparantly, and not worth the money to repair)
So now i need a new laptop that can run windows 7 64 bit, and really only Dell and the mac are in the running (sony has nothing with the same spec) - the mac has no numeric keypad, but is $200 cheaper than the dell, and about 1 kilo lighter (plus it also comes with the mac os). The dell has a faster processor, a slightly better video card, and all the other stuff is the same spec.
So it is a no-brainer really to go with the mac - it is just so much better in terms of build and design, and i fully expect it to be around in another 4,6 years...
And when rhino for the mac is up to speed, then maybe i will switch to the mac os for good...I couldn't give a toss about the apple logo, or apple posey stuff - I just want to do my job, without the hassle and downtime of the hardware dropping the ball...
cheers
rabbit -
Lene,
If you're starting your own BUSINESS, the answer to me is simple - go the Autocad route.
Get a NEW copy of Autocad LT OR if you can find one, an older FULL version of Autocad - but don't go below Autocad version 2000.
If you can find a copy of Autocad 2000 - great.You can download a plugin from SolidWorks that allows you to open / save any Autocad version - works well. (This enables you to open Autocad 2003 dwg files with Autocad 2000 for example).
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Autocad is the 800 LB Gorilla that sits in the corner that you can't ignore.
(as quoted many times on this Forum)
Its the most popular CAD program in the World. (doesn't mean its the best).It also works really well, back and forth with SU - especially if you have SU Pro.
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Chances are you're clients will want data in Autocad format. (dwg / dxf 2d / 3d)
The only way to know FOR SURE that any data you produce is compatible - is to actually have Autocad.
The clones are OK, but... they aren't always perfect.Much better to spend a bit now - and keep your clients happy - not good to lose them.
Keep your clients happy and your business will grow.
(speculate to accumulate !!!)
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Hope this helps
Howard L' -
Howard, I'm sorry, but that's nonsense about AutoCAD. that's exactly the kind of marketing BS that Autodesk would love everyone to believe! I have no problem whatsoever opening and exporting DWG files to and fro from AutoCAD to Highdesign for example (and on a Mac!). Yet HighDesign costs a fraction of the price of Acad LT. Hell, I even fooled my lecturers at university into believing that I'd used ACAD, when in fact I used a £13 shareware application called QCad to do the drawings- I still got an A!!
Don't believe the hype! Make a profit, not a loss!!!
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