Why not use plugins?

Chris Fullmer · 21 Nov 2009, 15:53

I just sat in on a presentation by Google about SketchUp. They had invited a bunch of professionals who use SketchUp regularly. Many of them considered themselves SketchUp Gurus.

I was a little bit surprised, but mostly just sort of disappointed to find that only about 5% of these individuals use plugins. (And only 1 person other than myself had heard of Sketchucation.com .)

So, why don't people use plugins? Do they just not realize how useful they can be?

For people who do use them, how did you start?

For me, I started using plugins when I discovered drop.rb and randor.rb I think. Then weld and simplifiycontours came in right after that. After I got used to installing, I've not been hesitant to use them ever since. But I admit, it did take me a year before I installed my first plugin.

Is this similar to other people's findings?

Chris

NewOne · 21 Nov 2009, 16:02

Ignorance maybe? What is so hard to be a "SketchUp Guru" when using just Sketchup's standard tools?
I started using plugins when I realized that those plugins exist and it was impossible to do certain things without them.
Question: Did those "Sketchup Gurus" let the impression that they were some kind of amish?

solo · 21 Nov 2009, 16:14

LOL, I remember base camp workshops, many self claimed "gurus" that could whisk up a a bunch of pre made components into a scene with a completion "Viola" exclamation.
I then remember them seeing SDS for the first time (It was a new ground breaking plug-in at the time)jaws dropped. I made a quick cartoon character (Tweety bird) from a few strategically placed faces and a level 3 iriteration and they were sold.

As far as SCF goes, majority of the many folk I met never had a clue what Sketchucation was, hopefully Google will do a better job of promoting this site next Base camp as we are a great resource and companion to SU and do a wonderful service for Google.

pilou · 21 Nov 2009, 16:14

Any doubt Gurus must be "purist" and "masochist" and forum is evil
I see no distinction between tools and scripts
Only result counts

you say 5% or 50 % ?
If it's 5% it's like nobody

MALAISE · 21 Nov 2009, 16:22

From the beginning, I use plugins, knowing how powerful they can be and frustrated not to be able to draw or make special shapes or effects.
Like other great 3D programs, Plugins enhance on such a way SU that it's hard to believe that some Gurus never heard about SCF ..!! Perhaps they consider themselves as masters who don't need any help ...( quite selfish ). I agree NewOne

Plugins build also a bridge between Drawing and Coding making an open 3D World..

MALAISE

Marian · 21 Nov 2009, 16:23

I think i started using plug-ins with the one that entered the code from the 3d warehouse into the model file, so you could update or change the model that had the code on the site even if it was completely new or just forgot to save the file after uploading.

Shortly after that i discovered Smustard and Sketchucation ( i lurked for about a year ), at first i experimented with all the plugins, I installed so many that SU didn't work anymore. After that i just tried installing and using only the ones that I really needed.

I'm also amazed that so few people that use SU don't use plug-ins or aren't aware of them, then it's no wonder that most people who are not SU users always have a bad opinion about it.
I certainly got some people interested in SU with some models i din't consider to be my best work, but they were still amazed enough to give SU another try.

Rich O Brien · 21 Nov 2009, 16:26

I modelled for 2 yrs without using any plugins. Mainly due to lack of internet connection where i lived and no access to web in work. When i did discover what plugins could achieve it was a difficult crossover to learn new workflow and techniques.

But overall it is amazing what developers are producing for SU at the moment.

As for 'Gurus' it maybe extremely easy to place that label on anyone but to test it is where it gets grey. As SU is used from Architecture to Landscaping to Engineering aspects, a 'Guru' in one field maybe apprentice in the other.

Why not use plugins? Because you have the choice!

Ecuadorian · 21 Nov 2009, 16:27

@chris fullmer said:

only 1 person other than myself had heard of Sketchucation.com

Consider yourself lucky, then. At the time of writing this, out of the more than one million SketchUp users, less than 5,000 are SketchUcation members and have visited the forum during this month. That's less than 0.5%, the same proportion of people who live in my city vs. all people in the planet.

So it's not surprising that so few people use plugins, as SketchUcation is pretty much the center of the SketchUp plugins universe and you need to sign up to download them.

Aerilius · 21 Nov 2009, 16:36

Most other modelers that I know (except of SCF) don't use plugins. Some think plugins have to do with coding and thus would be unnecessarily difficult. And many don't know how to install them (I think dropping a file in a folder is much faster than installation under windows with registry things).

And if you have followed or contributed to the SU Product ideas, you saw that many people request features that already are available as plugins.

When I first opened Sketchup, it reminded me of MS Paint - because of the very basic and primitive tools (although I muchly appreciate that SU tools are 'intelligent'). This is because Sketchup is intended to be the framework, where you add the functions that you really need, I think the solution is the
Sketchup App Store
where you can load and try out plugins directly in SU from a centralized repository.

jeff hammond · 21 Nov 2009, 16:40

@chris fullmer said:

So, why don't people use plugins? Do they just not realize how useful they can be?

i think it's just a lack of awareness.. a lot of SU users probably just don't know they exist or how they could be helpful to them.

i first used weld.rb and was blown away because i no longer had to soften a bunch of lines after an extrusion.. if someone is claiming 'purist' and would rather soften all those lines manually than more power to them i guess..

Ecuadorian · 21 Nov 2009, 16:42

@unknownuser said:

if someone is claiming 'purist' and would rather soften all those lines manually then more power to them i guess..

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=then%20more%20power%20to%20you&defid=4304238

dedmin · 21 Nov 2009, 16:49

I first discovered the plugins and then started looking for where to plug them

jeff hammond · 21 Nov 2009, 16:51

ha.

[so hey, if i fix the typo (than) in my post, will you fix it in the quote ? ]

[edit]@miguel

tfdesign · 21 Nov 2009, 17:08

An interesting thread. I don't use any plug-ins either. I started to, but ran into problems- like having to get to grips with how someone else had written that plug-in, and therefore it wasn't behaving how I would expect it to behave. When there is a deadline to meet, having to learn how a plug-in works can be a frustrating experience! So therefore, I don't use them.

Essentially what I found is that with most plug-ins (not all), what can be done with a plug-in is possible anyway, it's just a case of knowing the 'tricks of the trade', so to speak (I've also got a BSc degree in engineering with CAD, so that really does help somewhat).

I've just modelled an entire local Victorian-Gothic church interior with modifications, in SketchUp, for a commission for a local architect. No plug-ins were used at all. I'll post the results soon (screenshots, I'm afraid, because I'm talking 10 to 15 Mb's!).

thomthom · 21 Nov 2009, 17:14

I hear alarmbells when someone proclaims themselves as "gurus". That's usually people who have reaches a sufficient "good enough" level and assume there's nothing more to learn. Truly skilled people realise there's always more to learn and they are usually less likely to call themselves "gurus".

As for discovering plugins. It was some of my co-workers that demonstrated plugins for me. Think it was the mirror plugin - because I was fresh to SU and was looking for a more literal mirror function.
I then spent time looking at the Library Depot which for a long time was my main source of plugins. Then I discovered SCF.
Since I had scripting experience from PHP, JS, VB etc it felt naturally for me to begin to explore making my own plugins after I grew more reliant of plugins to do my work efficiently.

But most people in my office doesn't use them. There's only a handful of us. But I am planning to do a demonstration in the office. We have a custom of doing a presentation each friday.

thomthom · 21 Nov 2009, 17:18

@tfdesign said:

Essentially what I found is that with most plug-ins (not all), what can be done with a plug-in is possible anyway, it's just a case of knowing the 'tricks of the trade', so to speak (I've also got a BSc degree in engineering with CAD, so that really does help somewhat).

A number of the recent plugins do stuff that's pretty much impossible to do manually.
And some allow you do do repetitive actions in a fraction of the time it takes to do by hand.
In my experience, spending 10-15mins to investigate a new plugin and learn how it works will in the long run save me a great deal of time.

pilou · 21 Nov 2009, 17:19

Maybe using plugins can win some times?
And the life is so short
So I don't understand why not use plugins

And each Guru has always a better Guru over him!

nuclearmoose · 21 Nov 2009, 17:39

I spent a long time working with the WordPress team when that blogging engine was version 0.72, and plugins were, and still are, the best way to achieve many goals without bloating the main core of the application itself. More software programs should take a plugin approach, IMO. Just build a solid foundation and a great API and let others add feature-specific functionality. In that way, the program becomes more of a tool box where you get to pick and choose the things you want, and most critically, ONLY the things you NEED.

When I recently downloaded and started to try to make a serious attempt to learn SU, the first thing I did was start a search for a user-based community and PLUGINS. It may be wrong, but I expect a program like SU to be extensible. Anyway, in a very short time, I found Sketchucation, and I never for a moment hesitated to join. My WordPress experience has taught me a lot about the value of dedicated, fanatical, passionate users.

Sure plugins can add to the learning curve, but as Thomas stated, if I may paraphrase, it's "short term pain for long term gain".

I have a question about an earlier comment regarding a plugin called 'SDS'. What's that?

Sketchucation FTW!

jeff hammond · 21 Nov 2009, 17:41

@tfdesign said:

it's just a case of knowing the 'tricks of the trade'

you're right, all the stuff possible with rubies are possible with native SU tools (though i really wouldn't consider attempting an SDS operation manually). a decent understanding of geometry can get you pretty far in this game but still, what you rather do in this situation:

i have an exploded arc that i need the centerpoint location of.. i can either do it as shown in #1 (and then clean all that up afterwards) or i can go with door #2.. clf's 'arc centerpoint fiinder'..
ya dig?

Ecuadorian · 21 Nov 2009, 17:50

@nuclearmoose said:

I have a question about an earlier comment regarding a plugin called 'SDS'. What's that?

(www.smustard.com)