Lumber (timber) sizes in the UK?
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OK folks, got a client over in London who wants a Fujiadana (shade structure .. well, rain structure
design done. http://woodsshop.com/1_Rosen1000.htmCan anyone tell me what the timber dimensions are over there?
Here in California the common dimensions I'd use for the posts would be 5.5" x 5.5", or, if the lumber is still rough sawn (not planned down smooth) they'd be 5.75"x5.75".
For the beams I'd use 3.5"x7.5" and 3.5"x9.5".
For the stringers on top of the roof (to support and attach the roofing material) I'd use 1.5" x 3.5".
Does anyone know where I could go look online for the common dimensions used in the UK?
Do carpenters over there work with inches and feet still or is it all metric??
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Joe,
You could start by looking here:
http://www.trada.co.uk/
...
They have some drawings (standard details) you can download, but you'll have to register / join.
Info also available as PDFs showing timber sizes etc
...
Regards
Howard L' -
Hi Joe
If you have no luck with the above site, leave a message to reach me by am 26th June and I'll check out my local store and reply by tomorrow evening.Cheers
Alan
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OK, been poking around on that site and can't find anything about timber dimensions. I'll go poke around some more, but, Alan, I sure would appreciate it if you could go and see what are the most common dimensions in use over there.
Like I said, I'd like something close to 1.5" x 3.5", 5.5" x 5.5", 3.5" x 7.5", and 3.5" x 9.5".
Oh, and my clients said they'd be using oak.
Another question ..
Where can I download any building regulations/codes for patios and decks in the London area?? I'm doing a Search for that right now.
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Joe - the brits use metric like us Aussies.
In the US a 4" x 2" is in fact a 3 1/2" x 1 1/2" as 1/2" is lost in dressing the timber. It's called DAR (dressed all round) here.
In metric a 4 x 2 would be 100mm x 50mm - after it's dressed all round it becomes a 90mm x 40mm (i.e losing 10mm (1/2") all round)
cheers
john -
DAR? Here it's called S4S, surfaced 4 sides.
So your 100mmx50mm is the same as our 2x4, but, how about those other sizes I mentioned? Do they have the same equivalent sizes as we do here then?
Say John, what's the correct term to use when searching for "building codes" in London? I'm not having much luck finding specifications and code details for decks and patio covers.
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@unknownuser said:
So your 100mmx50mm is the same as our 2x4
Joe - it's a direct conversion from metric to imperial. I have to work in both - fortunately sketchup doesn't care as you can type in 4" or 100mm and it makes the conversion automatically.
Sorry - I have no idea how to access UK codes.
cheers
john -
Hi Joe,
Now that you mentioned that your client wanted oak I can answer that question.Obtaining oak in this country is not that easy. I purchased mine from Whitemore Timber in Leicestershire, England. It was purchased in rough sawn boards. If you supplied your requirements they would cut to size. I have bought from them years ago and I was not too impressed with some of the quartersawn oak they delivered.
A firm called Boddys(not sure about the spelling, I'm find the correct details and post soonest, is one of the best firms in the UK that I am aware of that deals with quality timber. Not used them myself through. Looking at the publicity in magazines they supply in various thickness. None of it is 'off the shelf-cut to size'
I'll get back to you with details of Boddys
fellow wood man
Alan -
Hi Joe
cannot find John Boddies (correct spelling) from Boroughbridge, UK on the web.Correct name for the other firm I mentioned is
Whitmore, found at
http://www.whitmores.co.ukfellow woodman
Alan -
UK timber is specified in mm sizes rather than inches, length is in metres and increment by 0.3m - so 1.8m,2.1m,2.4m,2.7m,3m,3.6m,4.2m,4.5m,etc ~= 6',7',8',9',10',12',14',15',etc. 25mm ~= 1" and nominal timber sizes go in steps of 25mm - e.g. 175mm x 50mm ~= 7" x 2" - with smaller sections tending to mimic the old 'near part of an inch sizes' - e.g. 6,12,19,25,32,38,44,50,63,75mm... So as has been said a simple conversion is pretty easy, BUT the timber you get delivered isn't quite so simple... Some timber yards supply European and N American stuff that can be mixed sizes and then...
A piece of carcassing or "rough sawn" softwood - that would used for fencing etc - at 175 x 50 will vary by several mm, piece to piece. Timber can be got 'regularised' on two opposing or on all edges, so 175 x 50 would be say 169-170 x 44-45 as ~3mm is machined off each face - it varies: also if a piece is ripped from a larger one the saw-cut width is also lost, so half of 200x50 is not 100x50 but more like 98x50, which is then perhaps regularised down again tp 92x44 !
Wrot/Wrought or "Planed" timber is similar in size to regularised - with say 3mm off each planed face: PAR = Planed All Round. If you want PAR timber you specify its finished size and it's then made from a larger piece machined down to that - so you can get 100x50 PAR BUT it'll be made from a piece perhaps originally 125x63 (or a ripped half from 225 > 110 > 100 PAR). This makes it a bit more expensive as you are throwing away quite a bit of wood. If you want something PAR that's "around" 100 x 50mm BUT you can live with 94 x 44mm then specify that size PAR, since the wood you are going to make it from is less and will cost perhaps 20% more for a few extra mm... If it's only a few pieces then perhaps it's OK, but if it's dozens of linear metres it adds up. The 'old' way was to specify planed timber as 'EX' so "Ex 100x50mm" - and you'd expect it to arrive a bit smaller, but exactly by how much would have been planed off was a lottery: you'd assume 3mm per face BUT could be 2 to 4mm ! Many companies still use 'EX' in plane timber descriptions, BUT with modern planing machines it's easy to be specific for what size you will get delivered - especially if the bits are fitting together without further planing or working, and the finished size might then be quite critical.
Note that base sizes of Softwood - Deal, Pine etc, will also differ from Hardwood - Oak, Beech etc...
Try this site to see what's available:
http://www.southbucksestates.co.uk/index.html
The 'Shop' link has lots of interesting sub-links with pictures and sizes... -
Thanks James, just the info I was looking for.
now if I could only wrap my mind around what meters are ..
appreciate the help guys!
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Joe - if you can wrap your head around feet and inches, metric is a breeze
cheers
john -
Hey Joe,
in North London my first port of call would be:
TW Parker (Palmers Green) Ltd
90-118 Green Lane
London
N13 5UP
Tel: 020 8888 3477
Fax: 020 88882273
Internet: URL not knownAs far as dimensions go, it varies from store to store. Lengths, as said above, tend to be in multiples of 0.3 Metres. In a lot of suppliers you can order in feet but beware that you will get a metric foot (eg. if you order a length of 10' you will get a 3M length (about an inch short).
Profiles are still described in inches eg. a 4" x 2" PAR is usually 94mm x 44mm.
I recommend that you find out the size of the oak boards available before you finalise the design; that way you will avoid paying for waste and extra planing.
As a general rule inches are approximate and metric is exact.Gerry
(my first post on sketchucation).poster-anothereye
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Gerry! Welcome to these forums! Good thing too since the old forums are about dead, such a shame ..
I've been talking with my clients and they say I can just go ahead and design everything in Imperial since they use both systems it seems. Appreciate everyone's help on this!
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Well, I got those Plans (pergola/shade structure with a deck under it) off to my client over in London. He's having a company over in Wales pre fabricate all the parts out of English Oak. I'm wondering, why Wales when he's in London? Aren't there any places around London to get millwork done?
Also, I had a Carpenter friend who went over to London a few years ago to work on a timber frame restoration project. His main observation when returning was how much conflict and downright hostility there was on the job between the different Trades. Not sharing information and working together which caused major misteakes, passing the blame for those misteaks, and finger pointing.
Then listen to what my client said after I emailed him last night asking how things were going ..
"Hi Joe,
Thanks so much for your email... I really mean it. I've spent the day dealing with English builders who don't care about anything, and are constantly trying to get out of doing any work, while destroying more than they fix.The structure is built and is arriving tomorrow, built out of solid English oak. Only problem is I think I've messed up the dimensions of the floor area slightly, so I think there will have to be some "on site adjustments", but nothing major (I hope). My garden guy starts work on the 23rd of July, and so I hope to see the thing up and finished a week later. I'll be sure to send you some pics of it once it's all finished and looking great. I'll also put you in touch with the guy in Wales who built the kit from your plans... Who knows, maybe you can work together on something else.
Again, thanks for the follow-up - it's made up for surly English gits."
So I'm wondering why it is that way over there, between the Trades? Over here it seems like everyone works together, like a team, for mutual benefit if nothing else. Is it because of the strong history of the different Guilds?
Plus on most projects over here there's usually one person in charge, usually a General Contractor, coordinating all the Trades and orchestrating the whole process. Isn't that how projects are run over there?
and what the heck is a git?
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@unknownuser said:
A git is a stupid irritating individual or idiot, Joe.
Glad things went well for u. Look forward to the photos.
CheersI'm a backwards 'git'...
In all ways I hope I'm the reverse...In the UK we do have general contractors, site agents, foremen or project managers who do coordinate and control the tradesmen, but at the 'coal-face' there is still some 'group rivalry' - e.g. joiners think carpenters are rubbish, electricians think they are the "bee's-knees", everyone thinks labourers are thick, architects are gay and out-of-touch with reality etc etc [all of this is of course totally wrong - except for some aspects !]... ... ...
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same here James but tradesmen are really in demand. A developer near me on the Gold Coast is flying carpenters up from Melbourne, 2000klms away, housing them in hotels, flying them home every fortnight and paying well above award rates just to get his project completed on time.
tradesmen are making 1500 - 2000 per week and all drive around in big SUVs and go fishing in the weekend in their big power boats.
cheers
john
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