Violent videos on Google TouTube (July 2007)
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f this situation is like so many others these days (a truly sad comment on the state of our society(ies)):
the conflict about who should do what with the postings will in itself increase the hits on them exponentially, increasing profits in kind...a fact I'm sure Google is playing at. And even if they eventually do the "socially conscious corporation" thing, Google will still have increased profit from hits looking for what slipped thru their policing.'Tis strange times these...Tom.
Best, Tom...
"It's never too late to be what you might have been." -
James and modelhead,
Who will tell Google what material is acceptable and what they should censor? You?
And if Google does undertake to impose their own sense of morality on the material posted on YouTube, they will certainly be accused of suppressing free expression.
If I recall correctly, this forum recently had its own referendum on the subject of censorship when the moderators were accused of overreaching their authority by removing a controversial thread.
In my opinion, censorship generally does more harm than good. The price we must pay for our liberties is living in the same society as those who abuse them. This has always been the two-edged sword of a free society, but it's better by far than the alternative.
-Gully
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@unknownuser said:
From what I have seen Google will do anything "legal" to make money...in this case they are soliciting illegal activity (at arms length) to make more money...another nice "legal" way to make money. Shame on them...many I know are disturbed with this approach.....there will be no loss for google...this is the world we live in. The pimp gets paid everyday.
ps: I guess no one at Google has children.
WOW!! If you really knew, you'd be ashamed of what you've said here.
- CraigD -
think you're missing the point, James.
There is no doubt other material on YouTube that some would find objectionable and wish to have suppressed, and their arguments and their outrage would sound indistinguishable from yours and modelhead's.
Who decides what is worthy of censorship and what is not? What criteria should be used? There is no set of rules that some would not find too permissive and others too restrictive.
So we are left with the fundamental proposition: censorship is far more offensive to far more people than the most offensive recorded information.
This is not an issue with Google or with technology. I hear you saying that Google should "police" their web site, but I don't hear you saying that the police should police the streets of our cities where these brutal acts are taking place.
-Gully
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@unknownuser said:
Google, you have provoked something in me that I have not felt in a long time…..If you where next to me in the room I would sock you in the nose for the damage you have done already!!
You have seriously misjudged and misinterpreted what the SketchUp team is all about.
I will no longer be visiting this forum.
Good bye.
- CraigD -
I beleive they are talking about youtube Craig...
not SketchUp, certainly no one would punch anyone over SU...
Kristoff Rand
http://www.aboveallhouseplans.com
-Unique Custom Home Design- -
I think that Google "policing" themself is not the answer.
Information is everywhere and once you have or attempt to have guidelines on acceptable postings or content it leaves too much room for abuse by the thought police. This situation is no different than how traditional NEWS stories are sinsationalized by mainstream media. For example whan the Federal building was bombed in Oklahoma City. EVERY "news" source showed and told how the bomb was built what to do how it was planned how they were apprehended etc...etc... Basically it was/is a manual for mayhem.The fact is that snuff films and alike have existed in folklore for decades. now with improved access anyone can see for themselfs. NOt just on youtube. The blame if their should be any? Is squarely on the viewer. The error of the viewer is a moral issue that in my opinion should only be policed in their own actions and mind.
If crimes against humanity are commited in such content those "people" who produce should be prosecuted
to the fullest extent of the NOW existing laws. NOT create new ones. To block them will only create more of them. also it will diminsh chance of conviction by pushing it further underground.This so called crime against morality can be eliminated completely very very simply just buy not looking at it. Turn the dial so to speak.
Is Google you tube or any other wrong here? IMHO Legally NO Moraly should they police themself? Not to the extent of sensorship.
Should Craig stay away over this rediculous issue? Absolutely and take Crishideous with him.
Jimmy
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Jinny agreed with me... neener neener neener...
Kristoff Rand
http://www.aboveallhouseplans.com
-Unique Custom Home Design- -
I tend to think that CraigD is refering to not visiting this forum, The Corner Bar, anymore.
I tend and hope to think he will be visiting the other Forums to continue his Help and his learn, why not ?In any case I think we must tighten ourselves to the software, SketchUp itself, and leave behind for a while our personal features.
The problem to get in a corner side is that you get out of the game. In the Old Forums there were always new blood coming and it refreshed all the time.
This Corner Site, I mean this place we are in now, SketchUcation_SketchUp Forums, is in danger to become a some sort of CLUB, although it is set to be wide_open.
I think the Corner Bar of this place should be put in quarantine to let the Main Forum Grow.
We should all concentrate more in improving the software and leave behind, for a while, the Time For Relax.
Myself included.
jv
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Let's hope he just meant the Corner Bar, Juan. Regardless of how I feel about the youTube issue I feel it is irresponsible to attack Google or CraigD (he IS Google here) over something unrelated to SketchUp or the purpose of this forum. It is to the detriment of this forum and I, personally will miss CraigD a lot more than modelhead.
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Modelhead, It is good to see a man with convictions stand up for them. Kudos...
I for one am not, and do not have time to surf you tube, I know there is a lot of junk on the internet, and in its simplest form, the entitys that condone (interpret advertise) (whether voluntarily or not) should be the first to suffer. If you guys actually want to strike hard, use the tools you have at hand to advise the rest of the world of the low standards these corporations have. Let the advertisers know about their poor choices, and let them worry about the bad content. Hopefully lack of ads on google will wake up the G.
I was going to start another thread about this but it this seems as good a place as any.
I hawk this site for tips and tricks to make SU work better for me when I produce drawings...at work...for money...When I sign on Sketchucation I am finding a bunch of regulars, who apparently live here and really don't have to work too hard. I can appreciate a good joke thread, and political etc debate, but I would hope you guys remember this is not the www, this is Coen's site, and he has hosted this thousand plus mob, for, what I think was anticipated as, a complementing ingredient to the BUSINESS he was already engaged in. If this were my business I would equate the irreverence and indiscretionate hubbub being posted akin to trying too make a living in a BK cafeteria.
Ive got to get back to work, there are some great folks hanging around here and I appreciate their hard work and valuable opinions, But this house needs to stay clean... signed off
The value of higher education: gives you the ability to yell...without raising your voice.
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Milton Friedman made some pertinent remarks regarding this subject. We live in a totally new world due to the Internet and youtube. Those kids who appear in these videos ought to think about their image into the future. One day one of these kids might stand for congress or apply for a new job and outta the blue this video might appear and stop them right there.
It's about personal responsibility. Being involved in a video of this type shows your level of responsibility to the world not just your school friends.
As The Police said - "every move you make I'll be watching you."
Recording Studio Design Forum
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you don't seriously think parents have any control over what their kids do on the internet do you James?
Recording Studio Design Forum
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They need to stay connected with them. Most of us have busy lifestyles but ur kids come first. It's a parents responsibility. And there's no excuse for not doing so. If u don't ur letting them down.
James
Global Moderator -
Guys,
Its very difficult to reach a decision
on which way to go on this subject.I rarely look at You Tube, however I paid
a visit and typed in 'Street Fights' to
see what it is all about. I then got a
screen advising that I had to be over 18
to view this content. It involved filling
in a form and receiving an email and link.
I fail to see the point in this, I could
have been 12 years old!I have a horrible feeling this is one of
those things that we will have to tolerate
on the Net. If Google police this stuff
another site will open up and allow this
content.I'm sure at some point some law enforcement
agency will take an action against one of
these 'stupid' bullies. Stupid, because they
are documenting their crime.Mike
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John, do you have kids? you figure out ways to accomplish this, whether its censorship, tracking, sitting with them, or keystroke logging, no price is too high to protect your kids.
The value of higher education: gives you the ability to yell...without raising your voice.
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I have 4 children but they are all grown up. (i.e over 20 yrs) I trust that the discretion I have taught them will influence their net activity.
Recording Studio Design Forum
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I'll add a little more on this.
I imagine the kids that are being beaten
up and abused actually know the perpetrators.Even if the perpetrators are underage I
understand that an action can be taken
against their parents.I would not be surprised if some layers /
solicitors are not already looking at this
possible revenue source.Yes, I don't like certain 'breeds' of layers /
solicitors but I suppose they are their
uses in this World as do vultures.Mike
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it's common practice for rioters, e.g. The Cronulla Riots here in Aussieland, to be arrested after being identified on TV footage.
This is no different IMO.
Recording Studio Design Forum
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@unknownuser said:
I feel bad about the casuality although I suspect that you are wise to stay away Craig...there is no way Google will address this subject in a hurry and you put yourself in a bad spot...I am sure they would not want you associating with me in here.
I am going to put Google on the shelf now...I have done enough damage to the forum with your loss...I have always liked you Craig and I am sorry that I have personally offended you.
I will not be returning to Google/Sketchup again until this is resolved in some way.
I am resigning now so that you can return. If your employer has the wisdom to change their thinking on the content I will return as well but until then.
It has been a wonderful experience.I'll take this one for the kids!!
ps: I would suggest that the forum management make Craig aware that I am gone...and encourage him to return. If in the future anyone needs me....well I build models..hmmmm 3dmax?
Modelhead,
I'm now wearing my Corner Bar Moderator hat.
I fail to see why you see fit to 'resign' as you
say. I would have thought it would have been a
case of 'leaving'. Only moderators can resign!
Also please note that this forum is SketchUcation
not Google SketchUp.You are perfectly entitled to you opinions here
provided that they are expressed in a reasonable
manner. This I think you have done to some extent
but have confused things a little.I do not personally agree with what you say and
again I do not understand why these seem to be
directed at CraigD as if he was representing
Google in general. He is part of the SketchUp Team
as far as I'm concerned and You Tube is a totally
different entity.Hopefully CriagD will reconsider matters and
continue in the open debate here in the Corner
Bar for along time to come.While I find the You Tube topic very wrong I also
fail to see any logic in Google You Tube culling
this content. As far as I'm concerned they are
allowing criminal activity being carried out by
very stupid people to remain for all to see and
hopefully the authorities to take action on in due
course.Mike
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