Violent videos on Google TouTube (July 2007)

Mike Lucey · 1 Feb 2008, 11:21

Guys,

Its very difficult to reach a decision
on which way to go on this subject.

I rarely look at You Tube, however I paid
a visit and typed in 'Street Fights' to
see what it is all about. I then got a
screen advising that I had to be over 18
to view this content. It involved filling
in a form and receiving an email and link.
I fail to see the point in this, I could
have been 12 years old!

I have a horrible feeling this is one of
those things that we will have to tolerate
on the Net. If Google police this stuff
another site will open up and allow this
content.

I'm sure at some point some law enforcement
agency will take an action against one of
these 'stupid' bullies. Stupid, because they
are documenting their crime.

Mike

rhankc · 1 Feb 2008, 11:21

John, do you have kids? you figure out ways to accomplish this, whether its censorship, tracking, sitting with them, or keystroke logging, no price is too high to protect your kids.

The value of higher education: gives you the ability to yell...without raising your voice.

John Sayers · 1 Feb 2008, 11:22

I have 4 children but they are all grown up. (i.e over 20 yrs) I trust that the discretion I have taught them will influence their net activity.

Recording Studio Design Forum

Mike Lucey · 1 Feb 2008, 11:22

I'll add a little more on this.

I imagine the kids that are being beaten
up and abused actually know the perpetrators.

Even if the perpetrators are underage I
understand that an action can be taken
against their parents.

I would not be surprised if some layers /
solicitors are not already looking at this
possible revenue source.

Yes, I don't like certain 'breeds' of layers /
solicitors but I suppose they are their
uses in this World as do vultures.

Mike

John Sayers · 1 Feb 2008, 11:23

it's common practice for rioters, e.g. The Cronulla Riots here in Aussieland, to be arrested after being identified on TV footage.
This is no different IMO.

Recording Studio Design Forum

Mike Lucey · 1 Feb 2008, 11:23

@unknownuser said:

I feel bad about the casuality although I suspect that you are wise to stay away Craig...there is no way Google will address this subject in a hurry and you put yourself in a bad spot...I am sure they would not want you associating with me in here.

I am going to put Google on the shelf now...I have done enough damage to the forum with your loss...I have always liked you Craig and I am sorry that I have personally offended you.

I will not be returning to Google/Sketchup again until this is resolved in some way.

I am resigning now so that you can return. If your employer has the wisdom to change their thinking on the content I will return as well but until then.
It has been a wonderful experience.

I'll take this one for the kids!!

ps: I would suggest that the forum management make Craig aware that I am gone...and encourage him to return. If in the future anyone needs me....well I build models..hmmmm 3dmax?

Modelhead,

I'm now wearing my Corner Bar Moderator hat.

I fail to see why you see fit to 'resign' as you
say. I would have thought it would have been a
case of 'leaving'. Only moderators can resign!
Also please note that this forum is SketchUcation
not Google SketchUp.

You are perfectly entitled to you opinions here
provided that they are expressed in a reasonable
manner. This I think you have done to some extent
but have confused things a little.

I do not personally agree with what you say and
again I do not understand why these seem to be
directed at CraigD as if he was representing
Google in general. He is part of the SketchUp Team
as far as I'm concerned and You Tube is a totally
different entity.

Hopefully CriagD will reconsider matters and
continue in the open debate here in the Corner
Bar for along time to come.

While I find the You Tube topic very wrong I also
fail to see any logic in Google You Tube culling
this content. As far as I'm concerned they are
allowing criminal activity being carried out by
very stupid people to remain for all to see and
hopefully the authorities to take action on in due
course.

Mike

not registered yet · 1 Feb 2008, 11:24

Mike
CraigD & Modelhead for them to get so uptight and permanently give up this great Forum over this issue is truly baffeling? Issues ma man Issues.
Good riddence I say.
J1mmy

Ross Macintosh · 1 Feb 2008, 11:25

I would think its a relatively simple matter for Google to hire a bunch of people in India to watch every video submitted and flag the questionable stuff themselves. The professional crap-screenig reviewers could likely learn to watch videos at two or three times the usual speed. No doubt Google are reluctant to appear to accept any responsibility for what is on the internet or their own servers.

So why doesn't Google do that -- you know, clean YouTube up? I think it all revolves around risk assessments. If they publicly accept responsibility for controlling content but something bad slips through they could have more legal risk than if they had never accepted the responsibility in the first place. Accepting a responsibility to clean things up is a likely a huge step for Google to take as the problems are much bigger than YouTube. Fix YouTube and people will also be clamouring to have Google Search results cleaned up more too.

Things could change at anytime. The current controversy in the media might cause Google to reassess the risk of doing nothing. Imagine if a family of an injured party sues Google for hosting a beating. A jury might easily be convinced to award many millions in a judgement against Google. Google need to assess the risk of doing nothing against the risk of doing something. Add in some pressure from advertisers and public opinion and I think we will eventually see YouTube cleaned up by Google. They will feel they have little choice.

Regards, Ross

PS -- I think ModelHead misunderstood Graig's comment.

Mike Lucey · 1 Feb 2008, 11:25

@unknownuser said:

Mike
CraigD & Modelhead for them to get so uptight and permanently give up this great Forum over this issue is truly baffeling? Issues ma man Issues.
Good riddence I say.
Jimmy

I would have to disagree with you on the 'Good Riddance'
comment. Its sad to see Forum Members falling out and
getting upset. Time is a great healer however.

Mike

alan wood · 1 Feb 2008, 11:26

Hi Guys,
I would just like to say that both CraigD & Modelhead have been excellent contributors to this forum. Such a great pity there has been a misunderstanding.

It would appear to me, that CraigD has been been working hard picking up faults that others in this forum have highlighted in the sketchup software, and handing it to the right department within that large organisation to deal with. And reading between the lines, possibily doing a lot more as well behind the scenes to help this forum.

Modelhead has helped many others, including myself, in patiently helping a beginner get thier web page up and running, and with Gideon's model. And I'm sure many more.

They are both excellent individuals, brought plenty to the table and will be sadly missed.

The problem with written matter, is sometimes things are not clear, and perceptions can be wrongly made.

I just hope this matter can be resolved.

Their input, in my view, is greatly valued, and will be greatly missed.

cheers

Alan.

Mike Lucey · 1 Feb 2008, 11:27

I hope things will settle down also Alan.
I'm sure they will with time and patience.

I looked at the wonderful work you are doing
on your site, well done! I hope you are very
successful.

Mike

CraigD · 1 Feb 2008, 13:58

@alan wood said:

Hi Guys,
I would just like to say that both CraigD & Modelhead have been excellent contributors to this forum. Such a great pity there has been a misunderstanding.

It would appear to me, that CraigD has been been working hard picking up faults that others in this forum have highlighted in the sketchup software, and handing it to the right department within that large organisation to deal with. And reading between the lines, possibily doing a lot more as well behind the scenes to help this forum.

Modelhead has helped many others, including myself, in patiently helping a beginner get thier web page up and running, and with Gideon's model. And I'm sure many more.

They are both excellent individuals, brought plenty to the table and will be sadly missed.

The problem with written matter, is sometimes things are not clear, and perceptions can be wrongly made.

I just hope this matter can be resolved.

Their input, in my view, is greatly valued, and will be greatly missed.

cheers

Alan.

Thanks Alan and all. I appreciate the support. I also don't want Modelhead out...just sometimes I take a lot of heat and always do my best to understand and represent everybody's point of view. But that was a bit much for me...I 'm not keen on being a lighting rod for hatred. I understand it's the Corner Bar so things are free form/stream of consciousness but I am not able to fully speak my mind, as I represent all of the folks who work hard here, and I thought it was a bit unfair. I also like to spend time here to get to know all of you guys. It helps me connect, which is important for me...you understand, not everybody gets to enjoy personal time with the community. It also helps me understand what's important to people and balances all the hard lonely hours we spend on SketchUp. It's harder than we let on.

Please know this; there are very, very nice caring people at Google and on the SketchUp team. I mean really sweet family folks. There are so many young people with new families here that I got nervous about drinking the water! We hurt when can't fix everything and we really agonize over what's important for you all. That's why it's extremely tough to receive anger or blame. But it's part of life and I won't let it get to me. Heck, my dog Tiki turned 2 today, so life is good!

I'm back onboard, and hopefully Modelhead will be back shortly as well.

Cheers, my friends.

 - CraigD

P.S. Please report all offensive material...there's more to Google than the BBC wants to report.

rhankc · 1 Feb 2008, 14:00

Craig,
It is really good to have you back, I appreciate the perspective you give us, and the knowledge that the team is working on the behalf of the users. I think there are many that feel the machine is getting too bigand uncontrolled, I'm real glad to have found SU.

I have a bear and her cub in my yard checking out the trashcan, my dog is going ape, think I'll go hook up the hose...welcome back

The value of higher education: gives you the ability to yell...without raising your voice.

alan wood · 1 Feb 2008, 14:00

Hi Guys,
Well thats good news.Welcome back CraidD, and other employees of Google who have contributed to this forum. Its greatly valued on my part.

Mike. Thanks for the comment about the web site. Its coming along thanks for Modelhead, and a few ideas picked up from Kris. Hope Modelhead returns one day.

cheers
Alan

http://www.hand-cut-dovetails.com

Gaieus · 1 Feb 2008, 14:01

Hi Craig, glad to see you back.

I'm sure Bruce (modelhead) did not want to personally hurt anyone - especially you guys who probably have no decision on company issues anyway - He was a heated person in a heate discussion and who may love his grandchild too much and is worried about certain bad things (is there "too much" in loving one's grandchild?).

Anyway, I hope he'll also come back and you can even personally settle the issue.

Gai... | Email
"Γνώθι σεαυτόν"

Dear Members, have you read the announcement?

tomsdesk · 1 Feb 2008, 14:02

Well, good!

By the time I got time to respond to this thread there was a page I could pretty much agree with everything without using quotes. I often wonder why we humans, careening down the steep slope of self destruction, so often end up on a path that maximizes collateral damage...'tis a puzzlement.

My two cents on the other pages:

I too feel the anger (lots of it at times) whenever I hear said, about such issues as this: "Not my job, man." Especially when there is profit being made...even unintentionally. The right thing to do is the right thing to do...whatever the consequences. I want to live in a world where every individual and every entity is expected to take responsibility and does all they/it can. I too support the chastizing and boycotting of Google until they change their attitude on this (and other) situation(s)...but I draw the line at giving up my beloved SketchUp (which is the depth of pain I read in what Bruce said, apart from his frustrated threat to pop a hypothetical personification of the MotherCorp...so, you're a better man than I, Bruce, and truly hope you stick around here as well).

Craig, our hometown star, SU, was traded to another team...and then not played in a way that necessarily pleased some of us (or made us proud, for that matter). I know you are wearing an extra hat now, here, but you oughta understand that the new one isn't too popular sometimes with some of us. Maybe taking it on the chin for Google isn't the thing to do sometimes, since we'd really rather not think of you and yours as "Google". I too do hope you and your colleagues stay and happily prosper here.

Okaybye and best, Tom.

Best, Tom...
"It's never too late to be what you might have been."

monsterzero · 1 Feb 2008, 14:03

Wow. I totally missed this thread. I fear that I might get flamed but here goes.

I read the article, and I feel like some things were lost in this thread:

@unknownuser said:

Over sixteen-hundred viewers watched his attackers taunt and punch him around the head on YouTube, the most successful video broadcast website. Yet no-one used the complaint system to have it taken down. We did and it was removed.

@unknownuser said:

However, the brands have all told Panorama that they knew nothing of the adverts - and have since ensured that they have been taken down.

@unknownuser said:

Almost all blamed rogue advertising networks for putting them onto the website. Both Carphone Warehouse and O2 have sacked the advertising networks responsible.

@unknownuser said:

"Upon investigation, it transpires that one of our online advertising networks mistakenly advertised TalkTalk on Pure Street Fights due to a technical error on their part. This was a breach of contract and we immediately cancelled out contract with this network."

An "open system" like this can be hard to move quickly. It appears the voices are being heard. I'm not defending Google, they are a big company. I am defending our voice. I'm sure they have caring people on their staff. If you don't like what's happening, write a letter to them and their advertisers. This forum is a great example of those voices.