Who owns the SKP?
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Ok, if handing over the 3d model at some point was discussed before the project began then I'd say of course hand it over if your prices included that eventuality within them.
But I do get asked for original files all the time, and I'm afraid 99% of the time I say no purely as it's not their property to have, it is yours. If they want your models, discuss a price with them, otherwise stick to dishing out 2d PDFs. -
I'm getting it.
It's about the 'Process'.
Never thought about it this way before.
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In my opinion with the info you have given, the .skp files are yours, and they have (apparently) paid you for the vector PDFs. Anything further they want is negotiable.
The actual .skp files are the most valuable part of the equation and have been created by you, unless otherwise stated on a contract they are your own work product and as such yours to sell or destroy as you see fit.
Give them copies of anything you have given them before, but if they want something else, a different angle etc... charge them for it. -
When I get a request like this, and it is a company I hope to work for in the future, I often release the SKP.
But, I do some mods to a new version before I release it.
I explode everything, and I mean everything. With an object retaining the layer it's group/component version was on when exploded, all the layer and scenes still work as expected.
Then, I purge all components and unused materials.
Then, I modify my style(s) so that the select color matches the default blue that SU ships with and then I change the locked color to match the select color. Figure this is a nice line of last defense in minimizing unpaid for functionality while still doing everything the client asked for. It's not your fault if the cad guy can't figure our how to get anything out of the model.
So, in the end, the client gets the model and you are the good guy. And no one can give you grief about your exploded mess because that is maybe just how you do things. And you can charge them money when their cad monkey can't figure out how to do what they want with your model. Win, win win.
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Could you propose to setup and export the files to 2D DWG on their behalf, for a fee?
Saves them a job, protects your models and generates some income.
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@baz said:
I'm getting it.
It's about the 'Process'.
Never thought about it this way before.
Yes, you are correct. There is nothing to have stopped you from already having archived or deleted these models by now, depending on how long ago they were created. It's up to you what your own internal office practice is with the files you have created.
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Let me add a little different perspective because I am in a very similar situation.
I draw 3D models for a company. IMO, the skp files are theirs. Here is why I feel that way. Would I be drawing the equipment if it was not for them? Is the equipment design mine or do they give me the design and I just turn it into a 3D version therefore the intellectual property, and thus the skp files, are theirs. If I, or you, we're doing the work "on the job" would the files be theirs? Again, IMHO, they pay me/you to create the files for them, therefore the own the files.
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Thanks for all your thoughtful replies.
I feel clear now that I own the SKPS.
I will attempt to negotiate a fee with the client.
Although how much is a puzzle. Some percentage of the original cost I suppose.@Dave: I think you are outvoted here. The point being the 'Process' belongs to me/you. The client is paying for the output only. Of course if you were on salary, with all the benefits that go with that, different story,
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@baz said:
@Dave: I think you are outvoted here. The point being the 'Process' belongs to me/you. The client is paying for the output only. Of course if you were on salary, with all the benefits that go with that, different story,
Yes, I see I am outvoted........that is the arrangement I have with the people I do my drawing for. No contract, just the way we work. I am a retired guy and the hours are not very many. Not only have I shared the skp's with them but they have shared with another company (not a competitor nor in the same area). But I fully respect the other opinions.
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The fact is that with a 2D they can't do much. It's very useful for some stuff but... come on. It's flat!
With 3D they can:
- Output 2D;
- 3D Print;
- Render Stills and commercials;
- Render animations;
- Show to their clients;
- Insert on 3rd party models;
- And so on...
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@jql said:
The fact is that with a 2D they can't do much. It's very useful for some stuff but... come on. It's flat!
With 3D they can:
- Output 2D;
- 3D Print;
- Render Stills and commercials;
- Render animations;
- Show to their clients;
- Insert on 3rd party models;
- And so on...
Interesting... I wonder whether there is any way to make my files 'flat' before passing them over. Plugin/Flatery perhaps?
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Hi - this is an interesting topic and obviously we all have made our experiences
the question always is: what has the customer ordered and for what does he pay?
For me it is usually the pure image - either rendered visualizations or view plans or ground plans etc... This is the usually mandated range of services for me and that is exactly what I deliver.
For render tasks, as a service, I mostly prepare a proof (a simple version created with little effort) to verify the look, the materials, the light, the deco etc. This proof I send to the customer as a pdf so that he can give me a go or can express his wishes or changes - these he must always give me in written form.So nothing else has been agreed, for all cases applies: the used software and the created file is and remains the instrument only, with which you have created the visualization which is the ordered product usually. The customer who ordered a painted portrait does not get the used brushes. The one who ordered firewood does not get the ax or saw of the forest worker...
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I must admit my circumstances are probably different than most of you. The company I do the work for pas for Sketchup ad the laptop I use for the work. Therefore, I feel that they are paying me for my time and the ability to use the software and as such everything belongs to them. If I were an independent contractor doing work for others as well, I would probably feel differently. Believe me, I fully understand how you all feel and can support you 100%.
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@ntxdave said:
Therefore, I feel that they are paying me for my time and the ability to use the software and as such everything belongs to them.
That makes no sense... they pay you for a service and you provide it... that's it. Nothing else belongs to them.
In fact "All your base are belong to us!"
Are you working on their computer? Did you use the money they pay you to buy a computer? Will you give back your computer to them?
Have you been learning something while working for them? They payed you to provide a service and that service requires a specific knowledge in order to be created. By that train of thought, it's only fair that you give them the knowledge back and empty your head after the service has been provided.
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@jql said:
Are you working on their computer? Did you use the money they pay you to buy a computer? Will you give back your computer to them?
As I said, yes the computer is theirs (they bought it) and they pay for the software. As I said, I think my situation is rather unique and I fully understand/appreciate the position you and others are taking.
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@ntxdave said:
...As I said, I think my situation is rather unique...
... not so unique I think. Also for us (in the company) there is a fixed staff of freelancers who are equipped with pc and software from us and each with an agreed minimum budget per year. These people create - we call it "corrections" - for us. So our arrangement with these people is similar to what you describe. And of course it is the raw data (= corrections) that we need to apply our designs on...
Here of course the files belongs to us although we play the role of the customer here ... -
Sorry ntxdave and HornOxx, didn't understand fully. However the idea of giving back your head sounded funny enough and makes a point for Baz scenario.
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It would actually depend on your copyright laws, where you do business and if you are an employee or contractor.
First you must look at the copyright laws in the country you are doing business. Then determine your employment status based on those laws.
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Baz,
Something else to be mindful of is how to protect yourself from unauthorized changes to your models or your work.
(If/after release of .skp/dwg/other)Charlie
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