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I think you will find the whole BOQ side is of little interest to architects in the US. It's a different way of working.
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I did say, 'take off' didn't I, Philip? Obviously the structural elements of the building would need an RPEQ qualified engineer but as for timber design and [again] 'take-offs' are all done for you.
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Agreed. Boq's are a red herring.
The real value of PS---if Andrew will allow us a free demo to determine this for ourselves, is if the plugin has parametric walls, floors and roofs (editable together...!!), and if the components like doors & windows are hybrid 2D-3D.
If so, that would be a major addition to the SK toolkit, but as it stands (at $1000US for a yearly subscription) I suspect there are very few of us who will want to play (I have no idea who the Co's or individuals Andrew is referring to that might happily be throwing that kind of money in his general direction.....).
But to the central question...Andrew: what happens to subscribers if you go out of business, or decide you don't want to program upgrades anymore? What does a subscriber have if at the end of any given year, if you are no longer there.....?
Please answer this.
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@dsorensen said:
But to the central question...Andrew: what happens to subscribers if you go out of business, or decide you don't want to program upgrades anymore? What does a subscriber have if at the end of any given year, if you are no longer there.....?
Please answer this.
I'm pretty sure that if plusspec would close the doors, they would find a way for people to use it endlessly.
For me the BOQ is always human made. Quantities of materials and building elements are important but there's no software that can determine the complexity of a job on site or the effort workers will put on something. That is where a cost estimate will eventually fail completely for one contractor, and be completely on the spot for the other.
I do think, however BOQ's shouldn't be underapreciated. The thing is they should always get an experienced eye over it and I can't trust the computer for that.
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Hi everybody!
I stopped using Vectorworks because Sketchup is cheaper, better in 3D modeling and it has a big uses database around the world.
Vectorworks costed me about 3000 euro + a yearly 720 euro subscription. I wanted to made BIM drawings where I could generate all drawings from 1 3D model. The subscription made no sense at all.
They promised me BIM but it didn't work well, all I get for the yearly upgrade was a new version with no better BIM modeling tool. I hated it. So that's why I cancelled.Now, as an architect, I use Sketchup with a tool called SKALP, to make architectural drawings with hatches that looks exactly the same as in Vectorworks. One payment of 59 euro for SKALP and free upgrades. That's fair!
The price of Sketchup for a business is very low, and something like 99 euro for a new version is very low as well.I heard about Plusspec some months ago. I emailed them several times to ask about a version for the Dutch market, I never got any response. The price is horrible, it's even more expensive than Vectorworks's yearly subscription.
What I expect for a subscription, and what I expect before buying, is great service and to know the upgrades will be fast and good! I don;t know what I'm buying because Plusspec don't answer any of my questions.I bought CONDOC tools, which should be used to make construction documents in Sketchup and Layout. Yearly costs are 250 euro. But here it comes, and why I hate yearly subscriptions, I don't get any help from CONDOC, no support, their website is horrible with a forum that almost nobody uses. The only way to get my answers is to schedule a 90 dollar 90 minute phone call with the owner to get any support. This makes no sense at all.
And now I receive 3 emails a week via their newsletter where they ask me to buy CONDOC. Dammit, I already bought it, I just need tips and answers to my questions to make it work!!!It's all about marketing!!!!!! If you have something great, which Plusspec can be, make it available to everyone! Sketchup is used around the world and has millions of users. Ofcourse not all business and people will buy, but to make it work and to make it profitable, you need a lot of people to use it. You can't expect me to pay almost 1000 dollars yearly to someone I don't trust. Make me trust you, and answer my questions for example.
Why didn't Plusspec asked us what we would be willing to pay? That is such an important question!!!
If everybody wanted to pay like 200 dollars once, and 59 dollars for a yearly subscription to get updates, you know what to do. Make that work for you or stop developing it.I understand that it took lots of money and time to develop Plusspec, but to earn it back in a short time to ask us to pay 1000 dollars yearly is just strange. See all reactions above, almost nobody will pay 1000 dollars yearly, even Vectorworks or Revit are cheaper... With this expensive subscription only a few people will buy and you won't make any profit. Nobody is happy. And 1000 dollars a year I expect to be treated like a king, I have input to make Plusspec better, I get updates all the time, we have scheduled calls with developers to make it better, you call me to ask how I work to make Plusspec better, I get the best tutorials from you to make it work, I get access to a Plusspec community to learn from each other, Plusspec will work for the Dutch market (we build different in Holland than in Australia) etc etc etc.
Hope this helps!
Cheers!
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Joe pretty much says it all really, I 100% agree.
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One might look at the success of DataCAD which had a very low price point in the 90's. Their user base reportedly doubled in three months in 1994. Now it sells for $1,295 but their early price slashing helped create a loyal following. Free trial.
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@pbacot said:
Free trial.
I think PlusSpec can learn a few things from drug dealers. If only we had the opportunity to develop a PlusSpec addiction...
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Hi guys thanks for posting, I know you all are disappointed Plusspec is out of your budget. I am sorry that is the case for you. All I can do is keep on creating pro software that saves you money and time.
I am not Google and I am not Microsoft, I am a builder who spent all most 8 years creating software that helps me and the rest of the users design and build more quickly and more easily.I know some people that will spend 3 hours searching the Internet for a free Sketchup model, the exact same model that costs $10 on turbo Squid or other similar sites. It probably cost that person $60 to to save $10. The same analogy goes for PlusSpec.
I have made the position clear and have set the price. If you want to get your local registered training provider to contact us for a Student version please do. If you want to get involved with PlusSpec because you have a heap of time we have plenty for you to do and in return we will help you with a license.
We can use more people as we are being bombarded with people learning Plusspec for their business.
Plusspec will save you hundreds of hour of work and make you look like a professional or more of one.
This software is professional software that is easy to use. If you do not want it do not buy it.
Keep up the good work guys, I have customers to support and people to help.
I love Sketchup and its development community!
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@aadbuild said:
... If you do not want it do not buy it. ...
From the posts in this thread, it looks like there are plenty of people interested in purchasing PlusSpec, unfortunately you decided to make your software available as RENTAL only.
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@tandem said:
From the posts in this thread, it looks like there are plenty of people interested in purchasing PlusSpec, unfortunately you decided to make your software available as RENTAL only.
Well said.
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Beginning of the glory!
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Dear aadbuild,
I have read every single post carefully and see the points to both sides. From a person that has been an entrepreneur for over 30 years, I have learned a thing or two about being a tree that bends in the wind so when the storm comes, I am still standing.
Let me clarify, that I know "nothing" of programming but am beyond good at coming up with better ways to do things and am willing to spend $$ in an effort to accomplish this. That said, I stumbled across your software looking for a plugin that would provide a "simple" quantity takeoff from the components in SU. After looking at and yes being able to "try" the software plugins in extensions, I am not pleased with any of them functionality wise.
Let me also say, I will gladly spend a 1000.00 for your software because although I am sure I will find lots of things that could work better, I can find nothing even remotely close in any of the available extensions as good as yours.
I would also like to say comparatively speaking your software is a bargain. I own http://www.tradesmens.com/index which is strong in BOQ, 3D rendering, and weak in the ease of take off creation, Close to 10K purchase 700.00 yearly maintenance. I also own Chief Architect http://www.chiefarchitect.com/ which is great with take off creation, ok 3D, poor BOQ close to 3K purchase 445.00 yearly, and finally OST & Quick Bid http://www.oncenter.com/ FANTASTIC take off / BOQ, NO 3D ability close to 7K for both purchases 600.00 yearly.
Now for the nuts and bolts; You say you can't provide a trial because of the code crackers out there, fair point. Keeping in mind I know nothing about coding and cracks. I do know how the companies software I own, address the issue. Since other than your price being to high, which hopefully I have been able to give adequate examples to demonstrate, is not the case. The general thread consensus is, let me look under the hood, so to speak before I buy. OST has a default setting that after a few days, if I don't run the software with an internet connection, the software becomes unusable. It pings their server I assume to validate my license key. Tradesman uses a usb dongle that without; the software is not usable. Personally, I like CA internet option, the usb dongle is a hassle. FYI, CA used to use a dongle as well back in the day.
So you "can" have a look under the hood ability if you wanted to and virtually eliminate the crack option.
Last but not least, and this is the easy one.
These guys want the option to own and not lease the car after they look under the hood, which is understandable, I also fall into this group.
Simply charge 1000.00 for license key and "X" amount for additional keys "like everybody else does + yearly maintenance of "X". If you want "X" to be 1000.00 "fine", but the prior users if they so choose, can still use their outdated software if they do not to pay the yearly fee. One idea to encourage people to sign on for the yearly maintenance is charge 1000.00 a year. But if the software falls out of maintenance and somebody calls and wants lets say, 3 years worth of updates, you charge 3600.00 which is 200.00 per year extra. Tradesman software does this exact thing to encourage enrollment.
If you charge a 1000.00 license fee and a yearly 1000.00 current / 1200.00 outdated maintenance fee. Then if people choose to opt out and not stay current, they still can use the outdated software "as they should be able to" after all they did legally purchase it. The net result being you overcame a "major" obstacle / resistance that your market is responding with, you are not out and or diminishing your revenue stream, and you now are a proud member of the "tree that bends club" and hopefully will be able to stand even after the storms.
semper fi
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@dsorensen said:
Hello,
It is very difficult to accept paying close to $1000 for a program that you cannot own.
If, for example, I decided not to upgrade to SU 2016, I still own---and can work with, SU 2015. I own the program.The yearly subscription---and its cost, simply does not work for me. If it were a one-time payment where I then owned the program, I would certainly consider it as a very welcome addition to the SU toolkit. As such, I will not purchasing the program, no matter how excited one architect shows himself to be about it.
Further, Plusspec is asking for the same amount of money Archicad, Vectorworks, Revit, and Chief Architect look for in their yearly upgrades. This also makes no sense. They may be bloated legacy programs, but they have great depth and usability for those who have taken the time and effort to learn them.
For Plusspec to put themselves in that league of value just out of the gate also makes no sense. And of course, the upgrades to these programs still points to the fact that a user choosing to upgrade owns the original program.
If I were the owner of Plusspec, I would seriously take a second look at my marketing and business model. It does not work.
Yep, I think you're righ on target on this one, it's a pity, as was looking forward in learning the software. I purchased it a year ago, but then found out it was no good for my Architectural business here in the UK & thought it was still a "beta" version, so not used it at all. With the official release a few weeks ago, I now see major improvements that was promised & flexible enough for use in any country. However I've been told my licence will stop & so will the software in a few weeks time...
As an early adopter, I thought my licence would run for a year from official relase, not the "beta" version I bought. I have to say "beta" version, because I understood, it was only really for AUS use until the upgrades & official release. Now a year down the line, it all looks more than promising indeed, apart from more bucks on the table & even more in a years time....Oh well,........
Over & out,
Clayton. -
@pbacot said:
One might look at the success of DataCAD which had a very low price point in the 90's. Their user base reportedly doubled in three months in 1994. Now it sells for $1,295 but their early price slashing helped create a loyal following. Free trial.
O.k. I confess, I'm one of them, user since 1990's http://www.datacad.com
Recently also bought STI SPIRIT http://www.softtech.com a turbo version of the same. I also discovered a few months ago EDIFICIUS http://www.accasoftware.com which has blown my mind...their pricing structure is...well..free to download & learn...you pay per project/printing, I can't see a catch, well impressed, makes all my other Architectural software look dumb.Back to the point, I'm wondering who PLUS-SPEC is being pitched to. Too dear for small architectural practices, larger high street practices may be too highbrow & perhaps use top end BIM-CAD solutions anyway. SketchUP is being sold in vast numbers world wide, so any time saving Extension add-on's by this virtue could be moderatly priced to make very good margins/profit. It's a bold move at this level as I voiced some weeks ago before I discovered this forum. This now gives credence to my early thoughts.
Over & out,
Clayton. -
I agree with about all of the posts up here. David pretty much hit the nail on the head re price point and all. Personally I think that at a one off of around $3oo-400 AUD for the plugin (this is a plugin - not a stand alone like Revit ect) and then an annual update fee of $50-100 would represent good value.
I personally hate the subscription model of sales with a passion. I don't know if he's listening but Chuck Vali of Instant road/roof/terrain fame may have lost my future business due to the Nui subscription model he now uses.I bought without question the original tools at what seemed like good value to own them. I keep a version of 2014 and 2013 on my machines just to keep using them they are so good. Chuck - bring back a purchase model and I'm sure your customer base will go through the roof.
Even Sketchup with its $100 a year started to alienate users. Providing Trimble put real development into this program and treat their user community with respect it is a cost we generally swallow. The reason the program is so popular and strong is due to the enormous efforts of a very talented user community that have offered up most of the plugins and extensions for free. Bordering open source with their charitable nature. What goes around, comes around. It is these plugins that make Sketchup the powerful modeler it is.
Skalp produced a fantstic product and although high at $100 it is a one off. Profile builder 2 - fantastic plugin $49 (one off). I think what we need to be aware of is that when we start adding up all of these extra plugin fees (especially subscriptions) we are soon in the territory of the revits and Archicads of the world. I love Sketchp dearly - I introduced and teach it in a building design course where I lecture and constantly amaze (sceptical) students with its capabilities. It does however have its limitations. Large models do bog it down. Crashes and freezes are more common than the Autodesk/Graphisoft offerings.
I have been a paid up 'Pro' user since Sketchup 8 and have bought quite a few worth while plugins as well as the Full Maxwell Render studio and sketchp plugin (Teach this also). Cost is never an issue with me. Value is.
Ultimately the future of how we pay for the program and its plugins resides with us, the user community. The might of the many so to speak. When en-masse the Sketchup users decide to come together and not renew subscriptions etc. then real change can happen. Synchronizing that voice couldn't be easier given how these forums work.
, good brains need Vegemite and PlusSpec... Both made in Australia. 
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