Time to celebrate SketchUp! Revit reps walk out!
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Hi Guys,
I thought you may like to know that we took SketchUp and PlusSpec to a national event in Perth,Western Australia where Revit, Archicad and Bentley were all showing off the latest and greatest advances they have made in the BIM industry.
There were several architects who rubbished SketchUp when it came to BIM, even in front of the Trimble representatives. I must say it got on my goat a little as well yet I bit my tongue and smiled as I knew we were about to show something that would change their opinions...
I hosted a lab session in front of many hard core Revit users, Bentley sales team, university professors and CEOs of large construction and retail chains in Australia. We ran a competition where the attendees had to guess the model size of a building drawn with PlusSpec. Some attendees guessed up to 700 meg yet the model weighed 14meg. ο
We drew a high rise apartment block and did a full quantity take off in front of the audience and by the end of the demonstration we received a resoundingly positive response.
We showed how to associate prices with Products.
We demonstrated how to add structure without knowing structure through Parametrics.
We showed a full material break down including concrete, timber and bricks.
We showed a commercial building that was done entirely in PlusSpec and rendered. BIM models are not supposed to be rendered yet we achieved it in photo quality.
We demonstrated preparing for Layout with a single click, cavity walls with windows, curved rooves, gable rooves, skillion rooves and hip rooves.
The aim of PlusSpec was to create an affordable, professional set of drawing tools that would reduce the time taken to draw a BIM model, minimise errors when drawing, allow simple change outs of dynamic windows and doors, add properties for insulation and special glazing types and have the model at a size that could be used to collaborate with all involved. Most importantly PlusSpec allows everyone to do a feasibility study early in the design process. How many designs have you slaved over that were never built?
After the conference I was asked many a question from the BIM community over a relaxing beer. I explained why we created PlusSpec and the reason it is so much cheaper. I noticed one of the guys present getting very uncomfortable, he then stood up mid conversation and walked out in a huff. I asked the Bentley guy (who instigated the conversation) what his problem was. . . the answer I got was that guy was the head sales rep for a Revit re distributor. Our intention is not to upset the more expensive software providers our aim is to give everyone the power to create and quantify at an affordable price.
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There is reality and there is image.
Neither sketchup neither many of it's associated products have the professional image one would expect.
Sketchup has the generic image of an all rounder and simple little software. Good for hobbyists and house wifes...
Plusspec grabs sticks to the look of sketchup yet it is trying to get into a very specialized market like architecture and construction.
Change that image, adjusting it to reality and market is yours...
NOTE: That I fully believe in Sketchup but what my clients know is that I work in 3D. After seeing what can be done with it I have no problem in telling them it's sketchup wich has a free version that they can also use. Unfortunately, if I tell them too soon they ask "Ketchup?" and laugh a bit.
NOTE2: I don't believe in most BIM plugins for sketchup. Might be an image problem or might be my own mistrust in BIM workflows or even the kind of architecture I see that emerges from BIM software. Maybe it's all of this together... Having said that, do you have a trial?
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I haven't got to use it much, but I've looked at most everything BIM. PlusSpec is much more user friendly and in line with "SketchUp thinking".
I might also mention my favorite feature. The ability to make any object (group/component) a "BIM object" fitting my needs.
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Does exist a youtube video of these Event ?
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That's a great outcome.
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@unknownuser said:
Does exist a youtube video of these Event ?
The event was last week, I will let you know when it is available.
@jql said:
Plusspec grabs sticks to the look of Sketchup yet it is trying to get into a very specialized market like architecture and construction.
Sorry JQL, I am not quite following the grabs sticks comment? Architecture and construction is a very specialised industry and many software companies have ventured into this space in the past. Ease of use and learning curve are the main reason we did not simply purchase their software, instead we created PlusSpec.
Building information modelling (BIM) is not complicated when you are explained the basics. Essentially Sketchup allows you to easily draw geometry that represents a real life product visually and the interpretation is done visually. Traditional BIM software gives the user that ability to add information to a representation so it can be translated in documentation (text). Once the text is produced it needs to be associated with important information such as size, unit of measure, cost, even weight and sustainable information ETC. Getting this information accurately and easily from the model in early concept stage is imperative for feasibility studies, scheduling and communication.
PlusSpec differs from it's BIM competitors by creating geometry (windows, structure, cladding, rooves ETC.) and attributing or associating the geometry with a product and a unit of measure. It then collates this information and exports into a format that is easy to interpret. PlusSpec creates geometry parametrically that is traditionally associated with a wall , roof , floor etc. and it adds it to a layer so you can view it when you choose and turn it off when designing. The beauty of parametrics is: walls, windows and rooves can be changed without a full redraw or even opening a group or component. Even if you don't need the information your draw time will be halved & the best thing about having Plusspec inside of Sketchup is the ability to create without limitation. If you need to quantify the Sketchup geometry simply use the BIM tool.After reading what I just wrote it is a lot easier to use than it is to write about.
@jql said:
NOTE2: I don't believe in most BIM plugins for Sketchup. Might be an image problem or might be my own mistrust in BIM workflows or even the kind of architecture I see that emerges from BIM software. Maybe it's all of this together... Having said that, do you have a trial?
I believe you will be pleasantly surprised with PlusSpec, the work flow is easy to follow & yes there is a 14 day trial available at http://www.plusspec.com. When you open PlusSpec you will find 30 tutorials and an interactive tutorial that actually talks you through the process.
I am not sure if you are aware that photo rendering and high poly modelling is not usually associated with BIM. Why? That is because all of the extra info associated with the geometry slows the drawing process. We have done a lot of work in Plusspec to minimise the Sketchup file size to allow photo realistic rendering. The model above is a good example. We also created a library of products where all Sketchup and PlusSpec users can access low poly models that have information associated via dynamic components. It is free and you can find them at http://www.rubysketch.com. RubySketch gives you the right amount of geometry and the correct image size according to the product, If you want quality furniture and fittings that don't slow you down give it a try. It wont cost you a cent.
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The Grabs sticks should be read as sticks.
What I mean is that plusspec doesn't look much professional, neither does sketchup, and that might be turning away many people.
Well I'm going to test you trial as soon as I have some "playing" time.
Thanks,
JoΓ£o
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OUCH
Thanks for clearing it up, I hope to please you much with good product.
I assume you are talking about the native Sketchup 3d scenes and styles. You know what, you are probably right the low resolution screen captures probably don't do the post justice.
The main reason was to show the full building so everyone could see the amount of detail in the model from a distance. All of this detail comes with attributes and structural information and that is something many designers pay little attention to. If you are going to give PlusSpec a try please attach a few images of what you come up with and the time taken as a newbie. Then go and draw the same thing in Revit and let us all know how long both projects took you. This will give us all a true comparison. If you have spare couple of weeks you may even be able to create a bill of materials in Revit. As you say
@jql said:a very specialized market like architecture and construction.
?Construction is the catalyst for BIM. Essentially it is the "I" (information) that is important in the model, not the line weight, Architecture requires form and function yet feasible constructability and price is the trump card. Real construction requires materials to build with, a schedule to build from, and cost of construction. This is what many architectural firms struggle with yet the industry is demanding it.
PlusSpec empowers you with this information. BIM is new to many and many don't want to the extra responsibility of actually specifying real product. The truth is many architects should not be specifying structure and neither should builders as this is the job for the engineers and consultants. In saying that if you do not have a basic understanding of structure how can one design a structure? I send complex models to the engineer via the use of PlusSpec. Communication is made easy with small file size, not line weight. This saves tens of thousands of dollars and a feasibility study that directly relates to the model is exactly what the client wants. With the full version of PlusSpec you can change the model and the price changes with it. Hooooooray!If you are referring to "Sticks" I assume you mean line weight or style selection that is really up to the end user. If you are talking about 2d documentation you really should be looking at the Layout file. If you are talking about rendering then render the model or get someone to render it for you. If you are talking about rendering you really are not talking about BIM.
It appears to me as though you are more attracted to the render and rendering is a very important part of presentation to the client yet means very little to the builder, subcontractors or consultants. Pretty pictures are for presentation, PlusSpec is for the professional who not only needs to be able to comment and collaborate on the model, he or she needs to be able to send the file, collaborate and on it. Collaborators need to be able to suggest or make changes to it and ensure it can be built. No one likes designing something that will never be built and PlusSpec will reduce the likelihood.
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I'm sorry for my bad english, stick as to glues to, or is this case, very related or having to do with. What I want to say it's not about the output you can achieve with sketchup. That is perfectly controlable and very professional. It's the overall "marketing" feeling wich doesn't have a serious look. Rather it looks like Sketchup is a fun little software... however it's much more than that! I tutor it and I'm one of it's stronger advocates!
Well this isn't a fair conversation. I know relatively well your background and you don't know mine. You deserve better:
I'm an architect working for more than 10 years on big and small projects. I've worked with stadiums, museums and big residential buildings when I was working with a portuguese architect (Souto de Moura) 5 years.
For about 6 years from now I've started my own small practice and though in that time I started getting big comissions and was envolved with construction for international buildings, the finantial crysis "demolished all that". It was pretty harsh here in Portugal!
At that time I had to reevaluate my situation as my future was very uncertain as an architect. I had to rethink how to get comissions, what would be my area of intervention and how would I deal with having no possibility of employing people for me. I'm now working on family houses, refurbishments and I'm really in love with what I do everyday.
This is where Sketchup came along.
Prior to that I was working with AutoCAD. My projects were being fully developed with it, besides cad I had physical models, sketches and photoshop. I would make 3D models with it too and basic renders. But I was well aware of it's limitations. I could render poorly from cad, I could not create bills of materials directly, conceptual exploration was limited, communication with clients was poor. Turning around all of this stuff implied a lot of work, staff and money for rendering or model making.
I needed something else and I was already aware of BIM, but never had the time to dedicate myself to it.
I was interested in all it had to offer:
- Parametric modelling;
- 3D vizuallization;
- Bill of materials.
- Construction documents updating (This was the most important of them all).
So I downloaded Revit Trial and was learning it for 2 months and almost did an whole project with it... But I was fighting with it all along.
- parametric modelling was no fun and not fast enough for conceptual design
- 3D visuals were terrible;
- To work with it was chunky at best;
- Bills of materials and construction documents I didn't even get there.
The worse thing was mass or conceptual models. I can just tell you that I was trying to do stuff with Revit that I was advised by Autodesk itself on the forums or help or whatever that basically Sketchup would be better for that. It also was easy enough to import a SU model to revit...
That was 3 years ago when I registered in this forum. Sketchup 8 was my starting one. After 6 months I was tutoring it. Since then I've seen BIM... a lot and I love Sketchup more and more every day. I've established my own workflow with it, I take bill of materials out of it, I use parametric modelling with Dynamic components when I need to, and the most fundamental thing here is that it all "sticks" to the first model. The model simply evolves in complexity and detail until I plot construction drawings from layout and create my bill of materials from the model. This construction documents are updating constantly with a few clicks... Details are all made in 2D on section cut faces. Models look great, work great and are great to model!
I won't even talk about rendering... Thea render... WOW! I'm rendering details for construction. 3 Years ago I was thinking of finding words to describe those construction documents made with cad...
Do you know what I could have better than this: double face cutting components. However I will definetely test your Plusspec as I'm always open to change.
It will take me some time though... I'm full of work right now!
Thanks for your time and patience.
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I'm really loving PlusSpec so far. Can't wait to see what the next update looks like.
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Does it support UK steel section sizes? If so would it be able to do a complete take off of quantities for a full steel frame model?
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@cadmunkey said:
Does it support UK steel section sizes? If so would it be able to do a complete take off of quantities for a full steel frame model?
I'm using Imperial/North American PlusSpec, so I can't say for sure. They are Australian based, so I would imagine their standards specs are fairly close to yours. However, they are adding whatever we ask them to add and the system is set up to create your own BIM objects. Give it a try... You're going to like it.
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Thanks for comments guys, I only have minute now to reply, I will try to reply properly tomorrow.
PlusSpec windows will cut through 4 faces and you can adjust the window and also change the glass type, frame size, reveal, etc. Here is a private link on YouTube I did not make http://youtu.be/MCncdebWVv4
We do have full Australasian Steel section sizes that are Parametric and also show weights and some beams even have connections built in.
Feel free to send us the sizing and or the company that makes the steel or distributes and we can make it no problems.
Yes once we make you will be able to do a take off from the steel and weight.
talk soon. -
I'd like to check this out. As an intermediate Revit user, I am aware of the high level of complexity and very steep learning curve. I pity the one and two-person shops what are trying to implement Revit; it is not very usable right out of the box. You need to create or customize almost everything...all your walls types, tags, drafting notations, doors, windows, furniture, plumbing fixtures, etc, etc, etc. AND...for all that complexity, the Reivt model really get's you to about 75% of drawing completion/accuracy. In other words, the model has gaps and inaccuracies and lack of detail. This is normal. The last 25% of accuracy is done in detailing, manually, similar to AutoCAD but with cruder tools. It takes a long time to figure out how to put a good set together. I'm not talking about residential sets, I'm talking about large commercial and institutional projects $5 to 100 million, up to 500,000 SF.
If PlusSpec can generate tight drawings for something like that, well-documented, with tight detailing, section, detail and elevation references, etc, and complete scheduling of doors, windows, rooms, finishes, etc...I'd like to see it.
One of the things that drives me nuts in Revit is the fact that you are flipping back and froth between two section views, three elevation views, two plan views and a 3D view to figure anything out. Even the 3D view is not true perspective; it's axonometric, which is an odd/distorted way of viewing 3D. And there are a great deal of view templates and other visual filters that sometimes make it difficult to "see" what's going on. Revit has it's place for sure, but it's not easy. ADN- you add the difficulty of consultants to the mix, oh boy. Even if your office has good practices and standards, your consultants will often have no clue. We get models with electrical items, plumbing items and structural items all out of whack. sometimes we have to just completely turn off the linked structural model because it's so out-of-whack that structural elements appear wrong, missing or out-of-place in most of the views. Very, very challenging.
But having said that, you're going to have to emulate most of the intelligent features of Revit to be successful. You've got to have walls, for instance, that are highly controllable as a TYPE (or dynamic component if we are thinking in SU terms). Need to control overall wall thickness, structure (all the elements of the wll, outer skin, substrate, vapor retarder air infiltration barrier, insulation, studs/structure, inner substrate, inner finish...with thickness and specific attributes for each. You need to be able to cut a section or plan detail in any wall, or junction of walls, and see all the materials that make up that wall type. AND- you need to be able to adjust the visibility level of detail, so that in 1/8" scal eplans, you don't have all that detail trying to print and showing up as solid black, and conversely, that when you are seeing 1 1/2" details, all that detail embedded in the wall type now shows up. AND- you've got to able to effectively tweak and draft over these details as they appear on "sheets"...because the model will NEVER be detailed enough for 1 1/2" or 3" details.
Just some thoughts. I'll try and check this out soon. Good work! Nice to keep Autodesk on their toes!
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From the discussion above this sounds like a fantastic product - can't wait to try it. I am absolutely in support of anything notRevit or ACAD. I've wanted BIM strength and SketchUp agility for a very long time.
I built a tiny little clubhouse kitchen in SketchUp a few months ago, but in order to get it to be BIM-like so that I could do all the accurate take-offs there was a lot of extra effort involved in the modeling side that I would never normally do in SU. Getting it to play nice in Layout was also a big challenge. I was well reminded why I only use SU for design and presentations and never for documentation. I hope you've solved that problem.
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Hi all, thanks for the reply, questions & suggestions.
@cadmunkey said:
Does it support UK steel section sizes? If so would it be able to do a complete take off of quantities for a full steel frame model?
We have all Australian Steel sizes complete yet we will create USA, UK and every other steel size as we get further into each country. The best thing for us is to have the manufacturers of the steel or any product involved. As Previously stated BIM's catalyst is construction and constructability yet to begin construction you first need materials that are made by manufacturers. We have received a couple of PMs in regard to actual construction companies having their products made and we are working through this now. Really what we need is all of the community to let us know what they need made to make their work easier. Things like product name , brand or even contact details will be of assistance.
@sketchydog said:
But having said that, you're going to have to emulate most of the intelligent features of Revit to be successful.
We don't plan on emulating Revit features as essentially our aim is to create virtual construction models (with in reason of course). Revit have used one method to do this and we are using another, our method is easier to understand and implement for the end user and it is faster / cheaper to communicate to the consultants in my opinion.@sketchydog said:
You've got to have walls, for instance, that are highly controllable as a TYPE (or dynamic component if we are thinking in SU terms). Need to control overall wall thickness, structure (all the elements of the wall, outer skin, substrate, vapour retarder air infiltration barrier, insulation, studs/structure, inner substrate, inner finish...with thickness and specific attributes for each. You need to be able to cut a section or plan detail in any wall, or junction of walls, and see all the materials that make up that wall type. AND- you need to be able to adjust the visibility level of detail, so that in 1/8" scale plans, you don't have all that detail trying to print and showing up as solid black, and conversely, that when you are seeing 1 1/2" details, all that detail embedded in the wall type now shows up. AND- you've got to able to effectively tweak and draft over these details as they appear on "sheets"...because the model will NEVER be detailed enough for 1 1/2" or 3" details.
I agree 100% I think we have covered this well and with the next version we'll have a solution for all countries. Level of detail has been covered yet assigning materials in the section has been something we have been talking to the guys at Skalp about as those guys have done a fantastic job in this space. Level of detail (LOD) is something Revit struggles with especially in the time taken to attribute actuals. I am quietly confident our solution is better, only time will tell.
All in all PlusSpec makes design, collaboration and building faster and easier, PlusSpec also makes Sketchup much more powerful. As a result we have a more efficient work flow and therefore industry.
I am looking forward to hearing your feedback positive and negative. Thanks for your responses. -
@sketchydog said:
You've got to have walls, for instance, that are highly controllable as a TYPE (or dynamic component if we are thinking in SU terms).
They have it... It's awesome. And it's just what the doctor ordered. If they add custom wall types... It's a done deal.
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@aadbuild said:
I agree 100% I think we have covered this well and with the next version we'll have a solution for all countries. Level of detail has been covered yet assigning materials in the section has been something we have been talking to the guys at Skalp about as those guys have done a fantastic job in this space. Level of detail (LOD) is something Revit struggles with especially in the time taken to attribute actuals. I am quietly confident our solution is better, only time will tell.
This is good news!
When you guys integrate yourself with each other, I'm definetely going to try.
I'm just suspicious of a couple of things:
- Heavy models - With all those multilayered walls Skalp will need for sections.
- Corner details - As those multilayered walls will need a lot of detail on junctions with windows, different structural elements, other walls and design variations.
- Window/door configurations - Frame/no frame, insertion on multilayered walls, editability and configurations on details.
For me BIM really imposes on you wich is the opposite of sketchup wich releases your design ideas.
I simply hate standards... will I work fine on Plusspec?
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@jql said:
I'm just suspicious of a couple of things:
- Heavy models - With all those multilayered walls Skalp will need for sections.
- Corner details - As those multilayered walls will need a lot of detail on junctions with windows, different structural elements, other walls and design variations.
- Window/door configurations - Frame/no frame, insertion on multilayered walls, editability and configurations on details.
For me BIM really imposes on you wich is the opposite of sketchup wich releases your design ideas.
I simply hate standards... will I work fine on Plusspec?
I could not have written a better reply to the post if I tried.
- Heavy models - not on your life. We have nailed this down to a tee.
- Corner details -done and done
- Window/door configurations- We build windows to manufacturers requirements, yet you will find that most windows all use a similar set of rules, therefore allowing you to configure easily. We are making videos on this now and they will be associated with the full version. we are looking for manufacturers in each country and or state.
The industry needs to work to standarsds yet there is no "standard" standard. Omni class, Uni Class, Natspec and the list goes on.
We have worked to a typical naming convention that is pragmatic & customisable. We do have improvements to make yet I am sure you will find the freedom second to none.
Logic is where Plusspec excels, yes there is work flow logic to adhere to yet is very flexible.I don't like to hear architects, builders, designers or engineers snigger about the pitfalls of Sketchup. I have not heard one do it after they have seen PlusSpec. Imagine what they will say when we release our full version.
JQL, we can bang on about this for hours mate, do yourself a favour and use the free trial. Yes we are still making improvements, yet what we have already is more than enough to answer all of your question and some. BIM does not have to be time consuming or difficult if you have the right tools.
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Hi aadbuild,
Yes it's true. I'm just being afraid of changing the "almost" perfect way sketchup works for me. It could be faster, better, less handmade, but it is a very good workflow I have here.
You've evangelized me though and, as I admited before, I will try your Plusspec... as soon as I have some time!
Thanks for your patience,
JoΓ£o
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