SketchUp 2013 Gripes & Bitchin' ONLY ;)

jeff hammond · 28 May 2013, 18:00

i really need to do stuff like this:

really nice looking

jason_maranto · 28 May 2013, 18:02

i don't doubt that there are better modelers out there... just need a good presentation tool too.
rhino can?
formz - maybe in time?

For those nice presentations you are going to be somewhat disappointed by your options outside of SketchUp/Layout.

Currently in form.z the missing ingredient is the perspective views and SketchUp (rendered) Styles. By that I mean all the dimensioning/notation functionality is in place, and floor plans and such are easy to do -- but those nice presentation "detail shots" would have to be brought in as images... which defeats alot of the purpose (this is why I refer to Layout as a perfect render engine for SketchUp Styles).

I imagine many people would adopt Layout if they didn't have to work in SketchUp (and they knew it existed).

Best,
Jason.

arail1 · 28 May 2013, 18:09

Those are nice looking drawings.

I've tried that - a 3D thumbnail on the page but all the annotations on a 2D view.

Unfortunately, there are lots of occasions where I want to pop out a detail (a corner, a joint, whatever) in 3D with dimensions so the shop can see what I want them to do. I don't see any of these programs being able to do that without some downside. Rhino can do it but the output is raster and annotation scaling can get suddenly wonky (annotation scaling seems fine in all modes other than perspective), LO has vector output and a nice raster / vector hybrid but there is essentially no usable dimensioning in 3D space. What I can say about Rhino is they're aware of the issue and have made some noise about addressing it but so far, no love.

Still wandering in the desert ...

fluffy82 · 28 May 2013, 18:13

@unknownuser said:

buy a mac.. then you can figure out why we tend to have more issues with our plugins.
thanks in advance

We know what the problem is: it's because you're on Mac
I've been using PC for over 20 years and in all that time I've had far less problems with it than with my MacBook in the past 2 and a half years.

SketchUp on PC is much faster and easier to handle than on Mac, for me anyway (just to stay on topic )

jason_maranto · 28 May 2013, 18:14

@arail1 said:

Maybe it's because my 2D presentations are done in AutoCAD LT and the weak point of my workflow is 3D dimensions that I don't see the excitement about LO.

That would come down to 2 things -- the fact that AutoCAD is an Autodesk product, and price.

Of course Trimble is rapidly moving SketchUp/Layout in the same direction -- so it may not make any difference soon. At which point people will choose based on actual features offered.

BTW, feature-wise AutoCAD LT is missing some of the things in Layout that make presentations so nice... like the perspective views and rendering (that are also missing in form.z).

Best,
Jason.

Dan Rathbun · 28 May 2013, 18:25

@solo said:

Why burn a bridge if you can blow it to smithereens?

I love that !

arail1 · 28 May 2013, 18:30

@jason_maranto said:

BTW, feature-wise AutoCAD LT is missing some of the things in Layout that make presentations so nice... like the perspective views and rendering (that are also missing in form.z).

Best,
Jason.

I work in AutoCAD LT which, unlike full AutoCAD has essentially no 3D at all - that's why I started using SketchUp. My workflow goes back and forth between the two programs all day long - so I hunger for a program that can combine the two. As I've said in other posts, Rhino looks real promising. I'm new to the program so I don't have the ability yet to really push all it's features but I'm very hopeful. Nonetheless - a vector 3D output with editable dimensions associated to points and editable text - still hoping and waiting.

jeff hammond · 28 May 2013, 18:36

@fluffy82 said:

We know what the problem is: it's because you're on Mac
I've been using PC for over 20 years and in all that time I've had far less problems with it than with my MacBook in the past 2 and a half years.

SketchUp on PC is much faster and easier to handle than on Mac, for me anyway (just to stay on topic )

the reality for me is that I have no freaking clue about mac vs pc.
I mean, the last time i sat down at a computer running windows was probably 2+ years ago and i had to ask the owner how to get a web browser up

it's super rare (never?) to see a mac vs pc argument where everyone involved knows both systems equally..
so it ends up being some heated fiasco but nobody really knows what they're talking about

that said, macs are way better.. they're faster, more stable, pick up more chix, built better, longer lasting, better support, better graphics, cooler (both kewl and temperature wise), look better, simpler to use, better value in the long run, better system wide app integration, have sweeter tv commercials, and probably at least 14 other things i can't think of at the moment..

jason_maranto · 28 May 2013, 18:41

I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts on Rhino's layout type tools once you've had some time with them...

As much as I like (and see the potential of) those aspects of these programs, for me modeling power is the bottom line -- nice presentations I can brute force in 2D apps, because I do them so rarely.

I am pretty far afield of the Trimble target audience and I think that will only become more true as time goes by -- Modo has nothing like this, but I honestly doubt I will miss it much for my work.

On the Mac vs PC thing, at one point in time I used both regularly for graphic design... so I stopped caring about the differences and just used whatever was the best value. If I got a good deal on a Mac I'd use it -- but those seem hard to find.

Best,
Jason.

arail1 · 28 May 2013, 18:45

@unknownuser said:

... pick up more chix,

Of course, after paying for the MAC you have no $$$ left to take her out to dinner.

jeff hammond · 28 May 2013, 18:49

for me on the mac vs pc thing is that when it comes down to it, it doesn't matter at all..

I mean, do you have good ideas or don't you? if you have good ideas then you're going to get them out there regardless of which OS is being used.

we've seen plenty of great work produced on windows machines and plenty of great work produced on mac.

the same person drawing a pile of crap on macSU will produce an equal steaming heap on windowsPC.

that's my honest take on it.. anything else I say on the matter is just me bs_ing.

jason_maranto · 28 May 2013, 18:53

@unknownuser said:

for me on the mac vs pc thing is that when it comes down to it, it doesn't matter at all..

I mean, do you have good ideas or don't you? if you have good ideas then you're going to get them out there regardless of which OS is being used.

we've seen plenty of great work produced on windows machines and plenty of great work produced on mac.

the same person drawing a pile of crap on macSU will produce an equal steaming heap on windowsPC.

That's about as perfect of a way to say it as I've ever heard

Of course I guess this explains why it doesn't matter if the SketchUp team uses Mac... the machine does not make you better at your job

Best,
Jason.

tomasz · 28 May 2013, 18:55

@frederik said:

Have to say that the lack of TSU Team members here at the SCF at the moment makes me feel suspicious...
I acknowledge that there can be several reasons causing their lack of interest...

Well deserved holidays?

tomasz · 28 May 2013, 19:11

@unknownuser said:

buy a mac.. then you can figure out why we tend to have more issues with our plugins.

I just recently realized when working on SKM library, that SU material editor on Mac is horrendous! There is no way to use same folder structure as on Windows, deleting only single materials allowed, no immediate display of a name of a selected material. I could add at least 3 more drawbacks!
I was astonished when I have discovered it! I couldn't believe that all Mac users had to fight with it for years! My sincere condolences.

SU Team:
Mat editor on Mac doesn't show a preview stored inside SKM file. What is the point in storing it, when you do not use it (on Mac)? EDIT: I know it speeds up materials preview under Windows, but i guess OSX is so fast, that you decided it is not needed on Mac, right?!

bmike · 28 May 2013, 19:36

well, i bought the damned update, mainly because i'm teaching 2 sessions this year - 1 specifically dealing with LayOut... and I'll need to have the update ready and loaded because I know someone out there will have it...

looked at rhino. can't donwload the OSX demo. page takes forever to load, in safari and chrome, and i can't get to the download link.

form z looks promising, but the 2d part isn't happening yet, from what i can tell.

so, another year of SU/LO - at least my workflow is stable.
LO does seem faster on some large / complicated buildings that i loaded up for a quick test drive.
that might be worth the 95 right there.
had to hand load some plugins that i tweaked the code on.
have the SU store loaded up too.

anyway... onward. will try and get some demo software running soon.

mcpcorey · 28 May 2013, 19:42

I upgraded to SU 2013 yesterday, and at least for the moment, I am going to call it a Huge MISTAKE !. (sure wish I had visited this thread before upgrading) I Just completed my first model with SU 2013, (probably have 12 - 14 hours time invested in it) I exported a .dae colada file, as I normally did in SU 8, so I can render the model in Lumion 3, only to find out that a collada file exported from SU 2013 causes lumion to immediately crash! WTF Trimble? This is not just frustrating, it is infuriating, and entirely unacceptable, when you have a PAYING client waiting for finished renditions, in order to secure the sale of a $60,000.00 project. And of course, I cannot load the SU 2013 model back into SU 8, I will have to completely rebuild the model in SU 8, so I can render in Lumion, and HOPE & PRAY that in the interim, a competitor does not secure the project first... I Could lose my MAIN source of income over this. (Ok I am through venting now, well actually not, I have a list in my head of all the other Gripes I have about the functionality of SU 2013, compared to SU 8, but the above described problem is my current BIGGIE, and may have just lost me thousands of $$$$$$ of future work)
Has anyone else had problems with collada files exported from SU 2013, that won't open, and or crashes of other applications?...
Any known work arounds ?
Am I doing something wrong ?
I use windows 7 pro 64 bit
SU 2013 pro (just ungraded from SU 8 pro)
and I render in Lumion 3.1.1
Never had a problem doing this with SU 8, or with collada files exported from it.
I even tried opening the collada file in the old lumion free version, and also got an immediate crash! I have been using lumion since the first week of initial release, and this is the first problem I have ever had with it, I can only attribute this problem to SU 2013!

Corey

fluffy82 · 28 May 2013, 19:51

@unknownuser said:

the reality for me is that I have no freaking clue about mac vs pc.
I mean, the last time i sat down at a computer running windows was probably 2+ years ago and i had to ask the owner how to get a web browser up

it's super rare (never?) to see a mac vs pc argument where everyone involved knows both systems equally..
so it ends up being some heated fiasco but nobody really knows what they're talking about

that said, macs are way better.. they're faster, more stable, pick up more chix, built better, longer lasting, better support, better graphics, cooler (both kewl and temperature wise), look better, simpler to use, better value in the long run, better system wide app integration, have sweeter tv commercials, and probably at least 14 other things i can't think of at the moment..

lol
I've been working equally on both for the past 32 months or so, but I can't really say I "know" my Mac...
But that's one of the problems: nothing is obvious, every command is different in every program, and it's just trying and retrying all the time (= waste of time).
I'm sure there's a solution for most problems it causes, but someone just needs to tell me about them

Mac does look way cooler, that's true, but it is much slower than my PC - especially in start-up (Mac 2-3 minutes vs PC 15 seconds).
Also the "better graphics" are not true anymore. It used to be true, in the 80's or 90's, but today PC caught up. My Radeon Club 7870 card is waaaaay better than anything I ever saw on Mac, mine or others.
And the biggest problem is price and durability... My Mac-mouse cost €50 and broke after 3 weeks, the second one after 2 months. I bought a simple €15 Windows mouse, and it has been doing the job for two years now

Anyway, I don't want to get involved in any Mac vs PC war so I'll try to shut up now

fluffy82 · 28 May 2013, 19:53

@unknownuser said:

for me on the mac vs pc thing is that when it comes down to it, it doesn't matter at all..

I mean, do you have good ideas or don't you? if you have good ideas then you're going to get them out there regardless of which OS is being used.

That's well said