SketchUp 2013 Gripes & Bitchin' ONLY ;)

jeff hammond · 27 May 2013, 21:34

yeah, it's a sandwich.. similar to a BLT except it's lettuce_tomato_bacon instead.

jpalm32 · 27 May 2013, 22:17

@bob-designer said:

Who should pay to fix basic Shetchup, we should.

• fix the printing.. (and not 'well, use layout for that'.. why?).. the sketchup printing setup is flawed.. bottom line. (for instance, it ignores wether or not a specified printer/paper has borders when doing it's scaling calculations.. it treats everything as if it's a borderless print but then you go to print and it spills out onto multiple sheets even though the sizing/scale are correct for a single page--- amongst a few other things.. too long to list at this point)

OMG! I got slammed for mentioning this by some cult leaders awhile back.
Printing truly sucks in SU. It's like a leap back 30 years.

Gareth · 28 May 2013, 01:29

@jpalm32 said:

@unknownuser said:

@bob-designer said:

Who should pay to fix basic Shetchup, we should.

• fix the printing.. (and not 'well, use layout for that'.. why?).. the sketchup printing setup is flawed.. bottom line. (for instance, it ignores wether or not a specified printer/paper has borders when doing it's scaling calculations.. it treats everything as if it's a borderless print but then you go to print and it spills out onto multiple sheets even though the sizing/scale are correct for a single page--- amongst a few other things.. too long to list at this point)

OMG! I got slammed for mentioning this by some cult leaders awhile back.
Printing truly sucks in SU. It's like a leap back 30 years.

good point....I'd forgotten about that....I surrendered a long time ago and began printing via Layout instead, but that isn't ideal when I am rushed. Thanks for reminding us...!!

arail1 · 28 May 2013, 02:43

@unknownuser said:

yeah, it's a sandwich.. similar to a BLT except it's lettuce_tomato_bacon instead.

That was quite funny ... it went by me the first time around.

arail1 · 28 May 2013, 02:56

@unknownuser said:

aside from that, they're really open to user feedback..

it's just a completely different vibe, you know? .. they want to make something awesome and don't come across as "oh.. you don't know what's best for the user-- only we do" (or whatever)

[it's not so different than the interaction you'll see around here between the & ... and it's good that way (imo)]

To clarify: Jeff's comments above were made in reference to Rhino.

Agreed. Especially considering that McNeel has Pascal Golay on the newsgroup and forum working with users to find solutions to their problems right up to the extent of writing code on the spot. It would be as though SketchUp had someone, officially, on the forum every day, talking directly to users and writing Rubies right then and there to improve the program. Probably not going to happen.

chicos · 28 May 2013, 03:23

I created an account here at sketchucation just so I could bitch! let me start with a brief synopsis of my feelings: Sketchup 2013 is a complete embarrassment and a disaster! Almost 3 years and this is what we get? Its not like version 8 was specimen of ambitious software development. Just look at the features that Trimble is touting for this release: numbered pages, dashes in dimensions, copy array in LO, curved leader lines, video export . . . holy cow dung I would be embarrassed to put that in my list of improvements, let alone 5 of 11. Even the big ones are let downs: extension warehouse is nice but merely simplifies functionality I already had and Pattern fills as far as I can tell are just added textures. Supposedly speed in layout is improved, but I may never know if I decide to switch to FormZ. Whats $1000 after you blow $95 on the biggest letdown in recent memory.

-chico

jeff hammond · 28 May 2013, 03:32

@chicos said:

I created an account here at sketchucation just so I could bitch!

lol
i guess that's an ok reason to join an internet forum.
welcome!

Gareth · 28 May 2013, 03:43

@chicos said:

I created an account here at sketchucation just so I could bitch!

-chico

welcome.....did you pick up your free BLT when you joined ?

Mike Amos · 28 May 2013, 06:47

@jason_maranto said:

As I've said many times, the community makes SketchUp worthwhile... this has been true for as long as I've been using SketchUp, and has only become more true over time.

Due to that fact, it has often puzzled me as to how SketchUp has interfaced with the community... or not, as the case may be.

Part of the reason I have such disdain for "darling" is I have very carefully watched his interactions with the users. What I've seen is a person who is perhaps nice seeming and polite, but rather dismissive of the user base and very superior in his own mind. This is not a positive thing... it could be a positive thing if he were a great visionary, a man gifted with insight that passed the comprehension of the masses. After all, such a gifted person should follow their own judgement... but "darling" is very clearly not such a person.

I do think such a person was instrumental in the creation of SketchUp, but they are long gone -- and the people left behind simply do not have the genius to carry the work forward. The genius types can dazzle with sporadic displays of creative inspiration. We non-genius types must get by on hard-work -- going above and beyond, delivering more than is asked. This is why I use the word "craftsmanship" when describing what I think the SketchUp team should be focusing on delivering.

I'll also be blunt and say that "darling" (or his staff) have never gone out of their way to support this place -- to the contrary they have gone out of their way to make sure they are much better represented elsewhere (whether that be a forum, or the new plugin warehouse). Never-mind the user base has chosen (and continues to choose) this place, that doesn't matter -- what matters is they are not in control and that's simply not acceptable. This is just one example of the dismissive attitude I am talking about with "darling" -- if you watch closely you will see it clearly.

This is at the heart of what I think is fundamentally wrong with the SketchUp development process. There is a need for clear-eyed understanding at the helm, especially in light of the fact that SketchUp has re-entered the world of commercial software after so long under the Google worldview... which hasn't done them any favors in mentally preparing then for re-entering the harsh commercial landscape.

Best,
Jason.

The only time I had any communication with John he came across as a thoroughly decent bloke who was patiently trying to tell me how and why I was wrong. I still do not accept his arguments 100% but do agree with half at least. A repeated e-mail from John to a tech guy was recieved where it was suggested the tech guy could help with some of the issues I was having, probably related to the method of integration with renditioner. This is where the whole sequence fell over, no further communication from either John or the tech guy. If you are going to suggest a resolution it is pointless to then shut off ALL communication and comes across as disingenuous. The 2013 release along with the low key intro just closes the statement really.

Frederik · 28 May 2013, 08:23

Have to say that the lack of TSU Team members here at the SCF at the moment makes me feel suspicious...

I acknowledge that there can be several reasons causing their lack of interest...
1.) "Darling" - or even members from the Trimble Executive Board - has set out commandment that no-one are allowed to comment directly as well as indirectly on any off the accusations listed here...
(it's - unfortunately - very common business in many corporations that you don't discuss business strategies in public... In all cases, this is because they have no desire to cause eventual harm on the stock market because an individual employee (or a group of employees) are speaking on behalf of the corporation...)

2.) Trimble have decided only to focus on their own community and abandon all third party SketchUp communities...
(but it's going to be tough to ignore a community like SCF ...)

3.) The TSU Team are not particularly proud of this release and has chosen to stick their heads in the sand and wait until the storm is raging out...

4.) Some other reasons as well as a combination of no. 1 - 3 above...

JuanV.Soler · 28 May 2013, 09:54

it looks like we are waiting godot
...wait endlessly and in vain for the arrival of someone named Trimble SketchUp Team
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_Godot

jason_maranto · 28 May 2013, 11:10

@chicos said:

I created an account here at sketchucation just so I could bitch! let me start with a brief synopsis of my feelings: Sketchup 2013 is a complete embarrassment and a disaster! Almost 3 years and this is what we get? Its not like version 8 was specimen of ambitious software development. Just look at the features that Trimble is touting for this release: numbered pages, dashes in dimensions, copy array in LO, curved leader lines, video export . . . holy cow dung I would be embarrassed to put that in my list of improvements, let alone 5 of 11. Even the big ones are let downs: extension warehouse is nice but merely simplifies functionality I already had and Pattern fills as far as I can tell are just added textures. Supposedly speed in layout is improved, but I may never know if I decide to switch to FormZ. Whats $1000 after you blow $95 on the biggest letdown in recent memory.

-chico

Hey Chico, welcome aboard -- there's always room for one more

As I said earlier in the thread, if they separated Layout from SketchUp I would update that right now... but it would have to be less than half the cost. The SketchUp side of things is just pathetically sad... and I too would be embarrassed to release that.

BTW, it is somewhat difficult to find on their website, but here is a comparison chart of current bonzai3d and form.z features: http://www.formz.com/featureslist/FeatureComparisonChart.html

As you can see by the chart, bonzai3d is very comparable with SketchUp, with some additional modeling power (no layout, but $100 less) -- whereas form.z adds alot of really nice capabilities for the extra money. The UI between the two software is essentially identical, with form.z even having a bonzai3d workspace.

Best,
Jason.

jason_maranto · 28 May 2013, 11:26

@mike amos said:

The only time I had any communication with John he came across as a thoroughly decent bloke who was patiently trying to tell me how and why I was wrong.

I agree with your entire post -- but this line is particular is so typical of "darling", I couldn't help but smile at the absurdity of it all.

If he's got time and energy to explain why we are all "wrong", then you would assume his software is already a sterling example of performance and stability... right???

Best,
Jason.

jason_maranto · 28 May 2013, 11:43

@frederik said:

2.) Trimble have decided only to focus on their own community and abandon all third party SketchUp communities...
(but it's going to be tough to ignore a community like SCF ...)

I would say that this would be the primary culprit. They cannot control or spin very successfully here because they are on equal footing with the users... not a position that works to their advantage.

But even so, I think talk from their side is pointless anyway -- they need to show progress, not talk about it.

They've got enough bug reports and wish lists backlogged to keep them busy for the next several years -- so there is no need for us to go through another pointless "voting" debacle either. Which was just a thinly veiled attempt at placating the user base after the v8 release was such a dud... I never imagined v9 would be even worse, I sincerely thought that was impossible.

I've got the new tagline:
SketchUp. Setting new standards for mediocrity in update releases with each version!

Best,
Jason.

Rich O Brien · 28 May 2013, 11:59

They are probably busy answering the 30million users on their forums to visit here...

Google Product Forums

(productforums.google.com)

...or maybe not?

Maybe their Sages are ran ragged offering great customer support....

http://productforums.google.com/d/msg/sketchup/N5B0_3Xb77E/zHGwd7GB99MJ

or maybe not?

All this conjecture on what they are and aren't doing is pointless.

We know what we are at here and for those bitchin' and moanin' about SU2013....let it all out all because there another 51 weeks of it.

But for those tuned in and listening and watching what is happening around here. Our online store for Plugins got a lick of paint.....and......

Later today devs will be uploading direct to the store themselves. How f@#king cool is that?

Whether you're on v8 or v9 you'll be getting updated plugins as they happen.....

Has that cheered anyone up?

EDIT -

I better add a bitch and moan otherwise Dan will kick my ass.

[screenr:1mdxwgs6]2d7H[/screenr:1mdxwgs6]

Dan Rathbun · 28 May 2013, 13:17

@rich o brien said:

I better add a bitch and moan otherwise Dan will kick my ass.

As close to an ass-kickin-emoticon as I can find.

Dan Rathbun · 28 May 2013, 13:46

Another one of my favorite bitchins...

I am sick and tired of elitest apple snobs (and some SU Dev team members,) telling us to buy a Mac whenever we have issues with our PCs !

IMHO, I see more plugin issues with Mac SketchUp than PC SketchUp.

So all ya platform snobs can just shove that Mac of yours right up .... uh, some dark orifice.

jeff hammond · 28 May 2013, 13:55

@dan rathbun said:

I am sick and tired of elitest apple snobs (and some SU Dev team members,) telling us to buy a Mac whenever we have issues with our PCs !

IMHO, I see more plugin issues with Mac SketchUp than PC SketchUp.

buy a mac.. then you can figure out why we tend to have more issues with our plugins.
thanks in advance