Performance issue (problem solved - i am an idiot!)
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Hi,
I am hoping one of you techy individuals can answer a question for me.I have been using the same sytem for 5 years and it has performed nearly flawlessly for me doing fairly large complex models.
the system is:
Recently I noticed that orbiting and zooming in and out even on fairly simple models was getting sluggish and even causing the model to display in wireframe while orbiting. I also noticed that my fans seemed to louder and on constantly.
Today it got to the point that I just could not continue to work effectively so figuring that it could be overheating I brought it into my local laptop repair guy for a tune up and cleaning.
It now runs very cool and quiet and routine operations seem crisp...but
Models are still an issue. Turning shadows on in models that I have previuosly had no issues with pretty much stops everything for minutes. Orbiting even with shadows off is sluggish and causes wireframe to show and components to disappear during the orbit or zoom.
Remember that these are models created and used on this very same machine and they have never behaved like this before.
So, my question is, does this sound like a graphic card or cpu related behavior. I am wondering if the overheating caused by my fan ports being blocked with dust could have fried the graphics card or caused my cpu to not function correctly.
Any thought would be very welcome. I will be bringig it back to the shop on monday and would at least like to understand how sketchup uses computer resourses during orbiting and zooming so I can better direct the trouble shooting.
Thanks
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Sorry, but I get very skeptical when someone states they have the same system for that period of time.
As part of the boot process there are system checks made and a look at the log files could give a clue about possible problems. It sounds like you are running low on system resources. I note you state you can dual boot with XP or W 64. Does this happen with both OSs? Have you look at the task manager and the processes running? You can end many of those ( non system type) and see if the performance improves. They will come back when you re-boot however. Can you restore your system to a point before the problem started? Your tech person should look at the task manager and also the performance monitors in the admin tool box. There are numerous plots one can make to understand what is going on.
Don't let the "hot" issue lead you down the wrong path? Have you run an anti virus scan lately?? For your W64 check the BIOS settings. There may be some possible options on memory re-mapping and how the OS uses memory? Your tech person should have a number of system utilities he can run to look for memory laeks, virus etc. Discuss with them what they plan. You should not have to " lead' the effort except for a good explanation of problem, when, how etc. and changes you have made. -
i note you state you can dual boot with XP or W 64. Does this happen with both OSs? I do not know how to switch from one to the other.
Have you look at the task manager and the processes running? You can end many of those ( non system type) and see if the performance improves. Yes I did do that, no noticble improvement
Can you restore your system to a point before the problem started? It was not an all at once problem, but I supouse I could jump back a bit and see what happens.
Don't let the "hot" issue lead you down the wrong path? I will try to be objective, it is quite a coincidence though.
Have you run an anti virus scan lately?? Yes, constantly updating definitions and running two malware programs as well a symantec endpoint protection.
Thanks for you input.
I would like to know though if you or anyone can answer this question...Is sluggish orbiting and wire frame display during orbiting in sketchup a result of...
low ram
or slow proccesor
or slow graphics card.What resource does sketchup lean on hardest when orbiting?
thanks
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I just got off the horn with my tech guy and he agrees with you mac1 that the overheat is not the issue. He is confident that i was sitting on the border of having enough resources to run my 3d programs prior to installing photoshop CS5 approxomately 1 month ago & that pushed me over the edge. I have already ordered ram to double the amount I currently have and he is confident that this will do the trick.
Thanks again and keep your fingers crossed for me.
p
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So the problem is w64 bit the best you know. Did the tech guy ask you what the sku version of w64 you have. Microsoft limits the amount of RAM based on that. See this link http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778%28v=vs.85%29.aspx. I assume you have home basic so you can install an additional 4GB. Photo shop should not be running. If it is you should see that in the task manager processes and can stop it??
I can not give you a back and white answer of CPU vs graphics card. Maybe someone can. They are both in the pipe line for rendering although the graphics card is the usually main contributor to slowness. However, floks have made complex models with primitive geo that will also cause the CPU to become very slow For Su 7 or maybe 8( can't remember which now) Google made a change to go to the wireframe rendering during orbit to help keep speed up. Have you tried to turn hardware accel. off and see what performance is. It should get slower because the job now is handled by the CPU. Save a copy of one of the problem files, remove all material and see if you then have the same problem. Windows 7 64 bit requires 64 bit drivers so check to make sure you have the latest ones.
Can you take a screen shot of you task manager and post here.
If you run dxdiag then you can run some test to check graphics ( not opengl but direct draw) and if fried then I would think that would fail.
See these links for some other thoughts http://www.tomstricks.com/how-to-test-your-ram-or-memory-with-windows-memory-diagnostic-tool-in-windows-7/ and http://www.thenetworkadministrator.net/index.php/2010/02/64-bit-version-of-windows-7-the-usable-memory-is-less-than-the-installed-memory/
When you state you PC was running hot do you have specific numbers. Many solid state parts are rated at 200 deg c max junction temp, but there is a thermal resistance from there to case to board to box( which inhibits the heat transfeer to the PC base, edge connectors etc.) etc. and the supplier of ,say your mother board, will the spec the allowed temp .Usually excessive high temps( unless really high) will not cause catastrophic failure but degradation in performance. I would think the test run at boot would catch a fried CPU but may not. Check the CPU+ mother board specs.
Good luck -
mac1, Thank you very much for your continued advice. You have gone above and beyond giving my issue this much attention.
No temps got above 100 c. The highest was in the 90 + range and that was the graphics card.
Drivers are up to date.
My Tech guy says he did test the graphics card and it is fine.
I will be dropping my machine off at the shop in the morning to have 8 gb ram installed and have some trouble shooting done if that does not solve the problem.
This is getting a bit too technical for the likes of me. It is time to let the experts take over.
Thanks again for your help.
Paul
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Mac1,
I am such an idiot! After reading your suggestion to turn off hardware acceleration I went to do it and.....
it was not turned on.
Somewhere along the line I must have inadvertantly unchecked the box...although I can't imagine how.
Anyway, my machine is working like a champ and models are orbiting happily. On the bright side, this problem forced me to get my very filthy computer cleaned up and forced me to pry open my wallet and get some long overdue ram installed which will help with my rendering program.
Thanks again.
p
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8GB RAM or 4 more. If may gusee is correct your SKU version of w7 64 bit will not address 12GB total. Ask your tech guy.
Make sure you readthe links I posted above. The W64 memory management is different vs what you are use to and you may what to change some of the BIOS settings. Again ask your tech. guy. -
Your renderer apps etc might use the PC's extra RAM [if it's 64bit and the OS is 64-bit too] BUT remember that Sketchup is always 32bit... so on a 32bit OS it will only take its share of the total ~3.6Mb of RAM no matter how much more RAM you might 'seem' to have [probably ~2Mb assuming nothing much except the System is active].
On a 64bit OS you can set Sketchup to be 'large-address-aware', thereby giving it up to 4Mb if it's available, irrespective of how much additional RAM above that might be available.
There are some other threads [and some Help files] about how to activate this 'extra RAM' for Sketchup running on 64bit PC OSs...
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I was aware that su is not a 64 bit application and therfore not able to benifit easily from the extra ram. I do believe that my sysyem is a bit of a pig in using ram and may only leave about 2.5gb of the 4.0gb available for su to run on. The additional ram will bring me to 8 total (sorry I was not clear on that). I know this will help with certain portions of the rendering process in podium and my hope is that it will allow su to take and use all it can.
Since I determined that I had two things causing my system to run slowly...1. overheating 2. I did not have the use hardware accelerator box checked. and now both those items have been fixed, I am running as smoothly as I ever have and that is not bad at all. So, my hope is that the additional ram will make things just a bit better than they ever were. Can't hurt.
Tig you were right to end that last bit with a confused emot.
I was, I am, and I will be even more confused if I dig into those threads.Thanks
p
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