A new home for SketchUp
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@rv1974 said:
@thomthom said:
@unknownuser said:
SU is not a parametric 3D program and probably never will be.
It's partially parametric. You can change edge length from the Entity window, arc segments - there is Dynamic Components - there are plugins that generates parametric geometry (I made a utah teapot plugin with parametric properties - I'm working on Bezier Surface where meshes are parametrically controlled with bezier curves and modifiers.)
Thomthom Have you seen this thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmFnq4_MkaY
Very inspiring.How much??? ($$$$$)
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@thomthom said:
it's partially parametric. You can change edge length from the Entity window, arc segments - there is Dynamic Components - there are plugins that generates parametric geometry (I made a utah teapot plugin with parametric properties - I'm working on Bezier Surface where meshes are parametrically controlled with bezier curves and modifiers.)
cool, I will check those out. But what about sending those models to be created? Like to a 3D printer. Sure not all need that but some do. A stl file from SU will be all but useless from my understanding. Thanks for the info.
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Guys,
On first viewing the Trimble site, it sends a cold shiver down a lot of our spines as it looks more or less to be by Engineers for Engineers and we all know those guys just want the straight facts with no frills.
However if you go through the trouble of delving deeper it offers some insight into the ethos of one of the founders who's name was taken up as the company name. Of course the man was a Mr Trimble, in this case a Charles R. Trimble the President and CEO, now retired and currently on the Project Steering Committee for the Small Business Innovation Research Program under the National Academies.
It appears to me that one of his legacies at Trimble is the Small Business Program
Its positive to see such a program on the Trimble site, so I think this offers some more hope that SketchUp could well be going to a decent new home, but at the same time, one that looks like it could do with some serious cheering up. Maybe SketchUp with its diverse community might be what is needed to achieve this? At the end of the day to my way of thinking, companies are all about people or should be!
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@jbacus said:
Another good perspective from the CAD industry press. I'm sure Roopinder would appreciate it if you guys read his post and gave him your thoughts on the deal.
john
.I just commented there:
@unknownuser said:
dear roopinder,
for a CAD insider you are not exactly well informed. otherwise you would know that only a small part of Sketchup's user base fits into the category of DIYsts or hobbyists. much on the contrary, Sketchup is used professionally all over the world for modeling complex stuff, rendering, animation and even for making construction drawings in 2D (using its companion app LayOut).
regards, -
We have obviously been discussing this over at FormFonts over the last few days...as it has a direct impact on our own business. We've also been discussing the article at CAD Insider that John linked to (which seems to have been written by someone who is anything but an insider...at least as far as SU and Trimble is concerened)
Our CEO Fred Abler had some very interesting observations on this acquisition, which he doesn't mind sharing with the wider SU community, so here's the gist of what he had to say in a recent email;-
"Alan, I agree with you, the author of this ‘insider’ article is a little behind the beat...
First, It’s unlikely that Autodesk even knew SketchUp was for sale. Though rumours were flying, Google has never before sold one of its divisions (to my knowledge)and Trimble has a much deeper relationship with Google/Google Maps than most people realize, including (probably) the ‘Desk.
Second, had Autodesk actually known SketchUp was in play, they still wouldn’t have bought it. As noted, Autodesk has competing products, some of which are free. The SketchUp acquisition would have killed their sunk investment in these products, and all but confessed judgement to the marketplace - that SketchUp was a vastly superior product, and software architecture.
FormFonts has observed AEC project delivery for many years, and our mantra is...
"It's “SketchUp to Win-it”.. and Revit to BIM-it”.Another ‘blocker’ on this deal is that Autodesk is having real trouble implementing Revit-as-BIM . This is not Autodesk's fault. BIM is a true disruptive technology that requires gut-wrenching changes through the whole project delivery pipeline. The consequence of this is :-
A whole lot of folks out there are using Revit-as-SketchUp. So, had The 'Desk bought SketchUp, it would have blocked their on-ramp for selling Revit, and completely killed their momentum.Nevertheless, this is probably exactly what Autodesk should have done... if only to keep SketchUp out of the hands of a formidable (hiding in plain sight) competitor like Trimble. Autodesk is a very good company these days, and had they known SketchUp was really for sale, and actually had the time to do the due-diligence, things may have come out very differently.
I think the real question behind John's post is, "Would we even want Autodesk to own SketchUp?" As I point out in my blog post SketchUp 3.0, I think we’re all going to be happy that it's Trimble who will own SketchUp (by the end of May).
Trimble’s prowess in Engineering and Construction combined with SketchUp's massive share of early project design and visualization in Architecture, together... ‘bookends’ the entire A-E-C market (and project delivery pipeline). AEC is a multi-trillion dollar market, even in a down-down economy."
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@rv1974 said:
@thomthom said:
@unknownuser said:
SU is not a parametric 3D program and probably never will be.
It's partially parametric. You can change edge length from the Entity window, arc segments - there is Dynamic Components - there are plugins that generates parametric geometry (I made a utah teapot plugin with parametric properties - I'm working on Bezier Surface where meshes are parametrically controlled with bezier curves and modifiers.)
Thomthom Have you seen this thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmFnq4_MkaY
Very inspiring.
That's the way the whole modeling world is going. parametric modeling synergy with freestyle modeling, they both have advantages on their own. And here come siemens PLM synchronous technology, others companies have their own name.But seem like every lines are curve controlled by points, even straight line, to do those manipulations. Siemens adapted Sub-D modeling techniques to nurbs, form can also be controlled with cages like FFD.
Also, t-splines is interesting too. It allowed one to do Nurb using polygon modeling techniques.
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I think Google strategicly sold to Trimble, who sells Tekla that competes with Revit. Sketchup in Trimble's hands will not be handed over to AutoDesk anytime soon. Probably the makers of Archicad, Vectorworks and so on in the CAD market were not expected to be able to buy Sketchup. Others might have been tempted to speculate on selling later on to AutoDesk.
I think the Sketchup team did not want to be part of AutoDesk and they might have had a say in this. With Trimble the Sketchup team has a good chance of staying intact. Trimble has no comparable product that can absorb Sketchup. So a good chance is that Sketchup will simply develop further and now with more recources.
Francois
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How many of you know that IMSI DoubleCAD XT already has purposeful workflow with SketchUp built-in, as well as the same Ruby engine in DoubleCAD Pro ??
I would think.. if there were any "CAD" company interested,.. that it would have been IMSI, rather than AutoDesk.
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@dan rathbun said:
How many of you know that IMSI DoubleCAD XT already has purposeful workflow with SketchUp built-in, as well as the same Ruby engine in DoubleCAD Pro ??
I would think.. if there were any "CAD" company interested,.. that it would have been IMSI, rather than AutoDesk.
Great company actually and they would have been a great match, I doubt they were privy to the info of potential sale and/or had the sufficient $$
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I think everyone is enjoying all this speculation. One thing is for sure in my opinion, it is Google that will have the major benefit at the end of the day .... somehow. Mmmmm, maybe we could speculate as to how that might be the case?
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@mrmikeesq said:
It's not like Google were the perfect people for the job! It's the great software that held everything together.
Both Trimble users I know (both spent an absolute fortune on Trimble stuff!) seem to love the company and it's products, which is a good sign too.
And yes, I'm glad it's not Autodesk.
Indeed, it is the legacy of @last software which has held it's ground......but I have never lost sight of the greatest resource of all, the SketchUp community....and add to that the communities which have sprouted from the vendors of several render plugins and we have everything we need at our fingertips.
Only a few things need to be done under the new ownership :
- Allow the SU development team to improve SU to meet the demands of SU users
- Keep a sensible price point
- Maintain a healthy and vibrant relationship with third party vendors
- Encourage the existence of Forum communities such as this
If not, we will talk with our wallets as soon as someone comes up with a software package which is able to replace SU....i wouldn't want that to happen for sentimental reasons, but lets face it, someone might take it on...!!...it has, after all, been done before.....!!
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@gareth said:
@mrmikeesq said:
It's not like Google were the perfect people for the job! It's the great software that held everything together.
Both Trimble users I know (both spent an absolute fortune on Trimble stuff!) seem to love the company and it's products, which is a good sign too.
And yes, I'm glad it's not Autodesk.
Indeed, it is the legacy of @last software which has held it's ground......but I have never lost sight of the greatest resource of all, the SketchUp community....and add to that the communities which have sprouted from the vendors of several render plugins and we have everything we need at our fingertips.
Only a few things need to be done under the new ownership :
- Allow the SU development team to improve SU to meet the demands of SU users
- Keep a sensible price point
- Maintain a healthy and vibrant relationship with third party vendors
- Encourage the existence of Forum communities such as this
If not, we will talk with our wallets as soon as someone comes up with a software package which is able to replace SU....i wouldn't want that to happen for sentimental reasons, but lets face it, someone might take it on...!!...it has, after all, been done before.....!!
I look at Acorn or Pixelmator for Mac as near Photoshop replacements, as well as the GIMP, and I would guess that it could be done for 3d. Although I bet patents would be a bigger issue.
I really want to see either an improved LayOut, or a 3rd party solution that makes embedding live models into 2d with dimensions and data... I can care less (at the moment) about BIM and Gis.
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@bmike: Have you tried using DoubleCAD as a Layout alternative ??
P.S.: (I never did try that workflow when I tried out DCXTv2.)
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Sorry if this has been posted (did not see it in the thread) but friend of mine, John Pacyga, shared this article in which a Trimble VP is interviewed and talks about his views on SketchUp:
Trimble: SketchUp fits with decade-long strategy
http://www.sparpointgroup.com/News/Vol10No20-Trimble--SketchUp-fits-with-decade-long-strategy/
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@tald311 said:
Sorry if this has been posted (did not see it in the thread) but friend of mine, John Pacyga, shared this article in which a Trimble VP is interviewed and talks about his views on SketchUp:
Trimble: SketchUp fits with decade-long strategy
http://www.sparpointgroup.com/News/Vol10No20-Trimble--SketchUp-fits-with-decade-long-strategy/
It's funny how sometimes after reading an interview you wonder what actually is being said. I can't get any wiser out of the words.
“It allows for the integration between architect and designer,"
Huh? between who and who?"It provides us a platform to integrate the architecture community with the design community and the design community with the construction community. We think the value comes from the integration of those pieces."
I wonder what activity architects do as work. Apparently they don't design
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@hfm said:
A good time to start practicing with other software, just to be sure...
Which one? Nothing is like SketchUp. And all the scripts/plugins and models. Jeez! Count me as VERY worried, too.
But then, we still can stay with the current version and ignore any updates. At least, as long we don't run into bugs, that is.
Best would be someone skilled starting to recreate SketchUp as OpenSource. Full API compatibility for models and plugins. Same functionality. All the same. Just from another code. But then, there may be fckng software-patents prohibiting this. I feel bad.
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@kwistenbiebel said:
@tald311 said:
Sorry if this has been posted (did not see it in the thread) but friend of mine, John Pacyga, shared this article in which a Trimble VP is interviewed and talks about his views on SketchUp:
Trimble: SketchUp fits with decade-long strategy
http://www.sparpointgroup.com/News/Vol10No20-Trimble--SketchUp-fits-with-decade-long-strategy/
It's funny how sometimes after reading an interview you wonder what actually is being said. I can't get any wiser out of the words.
“It allows for the integration between architect and designer,"
Huh? between who and who?"It provides us a platform to integrate the architecture community with the design community and the design community with the construction community. We think the value comes from the integration of those pieces."
I wonder what activity architects do as work. Apparently they don't design
+1.. my thoughts precisely!
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I think it's merely a question of semantics. All architects are designers...but not all designers are architects.
On a more general note, I don't feel any reason to feel bad about this. It seems pretty clear that SU will be integrated more fully into the AEC pipeline...after years of users here complaining that too much attention was being paid to Google Earth compatibility at the expense of AEC and more general modelling advancements.
The spin-offs from that ought to be of great benefit to designers not in the main pipeline...be they cabinetmakers or interior designers...and to all the little guys in general. And the users of the free version (currently GSU) are already well catered for and have assurances that they will continue to be both valued and supported. If the Trimblers were the hard-headed suits that they're being painted as by some, they would never have agreed to co-host the Warehouse...given that they would have got it from John Bacus and other Boulderados that read these pages, that most Pro users seem to hold the Warehouse in fairly universal disdain.
Trimble seem to be actually taking an interest in the engine itself, which seems to be more than Google ever did. Their interest seems to have extended no further than what use SU could be in populating Google Earth and of making it a household name in order to generate a large enough userbase to accomplish that aim. So maybe we can look forward to a little more coding in C++ rather than relying on the great (but often necessarily slow) Ruby functions...as well as advanced features not currently available. After all, if you're going for a seamless, integrated pipeline, it doesn't make a lot of sense to have pinch-points in that pipeline because one particular stage can't handle or generate the kind of 3D data that other stages depend upon.
I seem to remember John telling me that Google expected SU to effectively pay its own way from the sale of Pro licenses. There were obvious advantages to Google membership...free goodies, a direct plugin to world-class free marketing and exposure; and a handy venue at Mountain View, but the massive injection of R&D cash that many of us expected after the takeover never materialised.
If Trimble are actually interested in the guts of the program itself; and are hoping to extend its capabilities both in the core program and into a wider range of applications, that strikes me as being a good thing.
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@alan fraser said:
Trimble seem to be actually taking an interest in the engine itself, which seems to be more than Google ever did. T....So maybe we can look forward to a little more coding in C++ rather than relying on the great (but often necessarily slow) Ruby functions...as well as advanced features not currently available.
I often think about this.
As much as we want the improvement of the core program of Sketchup, an issue might arise that current ruby coded applets for SU might become incompatible.The power of Sketchup being it's modularity (plugins) might be it's downfall.
Will Trimble have the courage to dig a little deeper than to scratch the ruby code surface, to the risk engravating 3d party developers? (ChaosGroup, Next Limit, etc....)
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