I'VE ALMOST HAD IT WITH TRYING TO UNDERSTAND DC's!!!!

jeff hammond

@solo said:

. .but going to Pete's point. . . if it takes 14 hours to figure how to make a DC to save 10 minutes what's the gain? Short of some animation things (doors opening or something) I don't see what all the fuss is about. Stairs and fences can be re-modeled ususally a lot faster than it takes to input in all the data to make it DYNAMIC. SO i don't use them either.

Just my 2c

all minutes aren't created equally.

Ive made 4 DCs that I use occasionally. . one of them took me two days to build and it saves around 20 minutes of drawing time. (the others took less time to make but they still knock off minutes when the minute$ count)

the thing is, those 20 minutes are much more valuable to me because they occur on site where as the 2 days making the DC was done in leisure time.

..if any of that makes sense

solo

That's the thing Jeff, if I had a product that I used often and it made sense for it to be a DC then I'd probably have tried harder, longer or asked for help. Now my wife on the other hand is a CKD kitchen designer and she uses 20/20 daily, she is talking of using Sketchup in the future and this may be when DC's will come in very handy or even necessary.

I guess it comes down to when or how you will use them or even need them.

david_h

Ditto.

jeff hammond

@unknownuser said:

Ditto.

oh. I totally understand what you guys are saying and for the most part, I'm the same way.

it's just that I happened to find a use for them in which it made sense for me to spend the time creating the DC.. so I was just adding my own experience.

I do wish the sketchup team developed them much further beyond the initial release.
a DC GUI of sorts would probably do wonders as far as getting more people to use them.

the current implementation is far too codey(?) for most people. we generally want to SHOW the computer what to do instead of TELL it what to do.

(the show vs tell is probably the wrong choice of words here.. replace them with whatever works better )

solo

I agree, it should be easier, It feels like I need to learn a new program almost. I'd like presets with configurable options, drop windows maybe with options, easy building UI, etc.
or even as you suggest something like a macro, where I can record the action.

jeff hammond

@solo said:

or even as you suggest something like a macro, where I can record the action.

I was actually thinking something along the lines of grasshopper (maybe not as intense though )

maybe:
[in DC design mode or whatever]

select a face
assign a push/pull modifier to the face.
the modifier could then be controlled via a slider or numerical input etc

or select a component
assign a move modifier to it
show the direction you like
check yes/no for copymove
etc

itd be a lot more user friendly like that

pilou

Hoppefully this possibility of programming don't exist in the free version!

Maybe in the V9, so we can help you!

Try Scratch or Byob (Hyper Scratch) for your kids or you and DC will seem more easy!

Krisidious

DC's are half the reason I bought Pro 7 and gave up very soon after the purchase. I figured I was just too dense to get it.

utiler

phew... now I feel much better that you guys are of the same opinion....

I like that idea about selection a face and applying a group of settings to come up with what's require: Goh's 1001bit tools does a similar thing and it works well for me.

Maybe I just drop the DC thing all together.

Trogluddite

I concur with ArCAD's experience - the way DC's are deployed completely hampers their usefulness.
I have plenty of programming experience, so found the maths side not too bad and managed to create several DC's that I thought would be useful....
....until I looked in my Components toolbox - "Part#1", "Part#2", "Part#3",..etc...
...which I then rename as "Part Small", "Part Big", "Part Huge" etc. and then try to remember to drag the right one into the model so that I don't then end up with another new series of #1,#2,#3... (except that I will anyway if I alter any parameters "on site").
I think, at best, they can be used as a kind of templates for quick construction of regular "non-DC" components. But as has been pointed out already, SU is so fast to model with, that I may as well have just built "Part Small", "Part Big"... as separate components in the first place.
To be more useful, I would like to see something like...

Only ever one definition (visible?) in the component toolbox.
A new native component attribute "Suffix", visible in the Outliner - e.g. for a component called "Nut", we could add "M3","M4" etc. according to parameter values - purely as "aliases" to help us see what is what and for use in reports, but not changing the DC definition in any way.
"Variants" itemised according to their parent definition and sorted by parameter values in reports. So I can quickly see that I have used 25 M3 Nuts, rather than having to check each "Nut#x" component individually to see see what parameters it has.

In principle, DC's have a lot of potential - but I doubt it can ever be realised unless the implementation is thoroughly overhauled.

ArCAD-UK

Well this turned into a surprising thread. I hadn't expected so many experienced users to be having issues with DCs. I guess someone needs to grab hold of this aspect of SU and give it a real good shake to give us a more useable format.

I did have another play yesterday to create an inclined beam and realised that DCs are really lacking some basic shape modelling commands such as add and subtract, but with SU's solid modelling this must now be a realistic prospect?

gullfo

yeah, naming your parts and using materials (i use colors named as needed "lumber_stud", "machine_bolt" etc then replace if used for rendering later) is key to making the reporting work well. then i import to excel and run some macros to remove extraneous values and summarize (DSUM DCOUNT etc) to create the materials list. it would be nice to have the reporting take families of groups and report directly though...

it would be cool if DC had a "record macro" function. but some more functions (like % (mod)) would be nice plus parent's parent referencing (as well as inserting of Ruby code )

utiler

@arcad-uk said:

Well this turned into a surprising thread. I hadn't expected so many experienced users to be having issues with DCs. I guess someone needs to grab hold of this aspect of SU and give it a real good shake to give us a more useable format.

Let's hope.....

ArCAD-UK

@gullfo said:

it would be nice to have the reporting take families of groups and report directly though...

Glenn, I'm no Exel wiz but could you achieve what you need with a pivot table?

gullfo

I do use Excel currently but i'm thinking a built-in solution for SU would be nice

Andrew Jones

Hi All,

Where would I find a list of functions that could be used in DCs? Or a guide to the maths being talked about here? I've built a door DC but had the problem of it resizing things I don't want changed when it adjusts, but it looks like there are ways to stop that happening. I'm patient enough to work out formulas (actually enjoy excel stuff), and I figure if i can get what I need done in a week of working on the DCs, it still beats forking out on another program (not that I can find one that I like, or that has libraries I can use anyway)

I'm hoping Trimble add a decent 2d drafting component and object library tools that way there is nothing I need elsewhere. At the moment I'm only searching for another program as my first project done in Skp Pro 8 took way too long. the windows on the house took 2 hours alone. Don't talk to me about the gutters, I think I have geometry stuck under my nails still...then the engineer wants changes and the ceiling heights are going up, all that starts making it like digging sand with a tooth pick.

But as shite as they seem to be, DCs may be the thing I need to get into... and having 'group and layer it' tattooed on the back of my eyelids.
cheers

Andy

ArCAD-UK

Andy - If you open the Window>Component Attributes dialog there is a tab at the top which when clicked will then give access to a list all the functions. Additionally you can go here...

http://support.google.com/sketchup/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=108144

for a more detailed explanantion.

As I've mentioned previously I gave up on DC's. My solution is to build individual non-DC components which can be quickly edited to suit a specific project e.g. a window where you only need to carry out two stretches 1. to change the overall frame and 2. the casement.

Good luck with your endeavours. Let us know how you get on!

Jim

@andrew jones said:

Where would I find a list of functions that could be used in DCs? Or a guide to the maths being talked about here?

Here's a good starting page...

http://support.google.com/sketchup/bin/topic.py?hl=en&topic=22496

Andrew Jones

Thanks ArCAD / Jim,

I'll have a good go at them an see if I can't get something happening. If it's just a matter of maths skills, then it can't hurt to stretch the ol' brain a bit. Might keep alziemers at bay...

david_h

@andrew jones said:

If it's just a matter of maths skills, then it can't hurt to stretch the ol' brain a bit. Might keep alziemers at bay...

If it were me, I would just take a daily dose of coconut oil and do the little extra modeling.