Containing famine
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@slimdog said:
Krisidious what kind of floor layout do you envision for the containers standing on there ends in your model?
with exterior being 8'x8' I had guessed that a small bed could be put in a few top levels and leave a small area at the base for a kitchenette... all of this being emergency sized not permanent. and using a ladder to get through the four resulting levels that could be put in a 40' container.
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if you combine almost any container apartment with Solo's green house you could almost live in any environment self sufficiently if you had a water source.
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Pete-your system is very similar to a phytoremediation system called rhizofiltration used in landscape remediation (particularly mine reclamation) but more portable. Basically, in areas with contaminated ground water the water is pumped into closed systems where it is the water supply for plants that are "hyper-accumulators" of the toxin(s) in the water. The water is often pumped through multiple rows of plants multiple times like in your system.
Anyways, a little off topic, but your idea reminded me of this.
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Jon, thanks for that info. Rhizofiltration looks like a great process for filtering water.
Just thinking out loud... why flowers and not something like food that can be given to the poor? is it because of the toxins in the water maybe?
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i´m not an expert in the field of anything your system has to do with - actually i´m glad my few plants live a happy live in my own four walls, but IMO your concept sounds great and even if it shouldn´t work or help to solve the worlds problems i love to see people thinking about ways to help.
i´ve been thinking about a micro-power-plant design that could make people worldwide independent from external power supply for the longest time. It should be a "non patented open-source blueprint" everybody could build on its own from common materials with a medium effort and produce enough power for the daily needs. no big companies should be able to earn a dollar from it. sweet dreams i know
unfortunately my knowledge in the matter is not sufficient to tackle this on my own and my financial and timely resources are too limited as well...
anyways love your idea and hopefully someone will make something out of it.
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Kris,
I have pondered this shipping container issue for a long time, years in fact and the more I look at it the more I find issue with it. I guess if they were free and already in dock at a port near the disaster area then fine, they can be used as is, pop a few holes for windows, get some warehouse racking for bungalow style bunk beds to house many and we have a temporary solution. For areas like Somalia and Haiti who's location is so close to the equator I fear they will be big ovens like a dog in a hot car.
Containers can have a use once the disaster is eased as storage facilities, maybe even retail stores in informal market areas, but homes I am not sure.
I have seen over the years how folk have used containers, the stuff on the internet are way over the top, using them as modular Lego blocks defying gravity with Scavalli type kitchens and stainless steel staircases, etc, more of a statement than a solution.
I have been pricing used containers and found that undamaged 20ft containers go for around $2200 undelivered. I have also found a South African company that builds Zozo and Wendy huts for a lesser price (converting ZAR to USD) look at this hut:
[attachment=0:3jcu2six]<!-- ia0 -->Wendy house.jpg<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:3jcu2six]
It's larger than a 20 ft container and converted it costs $2071 new, and ready for occupation or delivered with instructions in a kit for easy construction.
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Pete, Im working on a masters of landscape architecture degree with a focus area of landscape restoration/reclamation, so all of my experience with phytoremediation comes from a science standpoint aimed at filtering the toxins. Most of the plants used were selected because they were found to be "hyper-accumulators" meaning they can uptake at least 100x the normal toxic amount of a certain toxin (usually metal).
However, you bring up an interesting point because a lot of research is done into how and why these hyper-accumulators are able to absorb so much toxin and still survive. Off of that research, of course, could come the possibility of making weaker plants into hyper-accumulators. The one potential problem I see with it is what I think you were asking at the end of your post-where the plant stores the toxin(s). Some plants store it in their roots, some in the stalks, some in leaves, etc. If it was a crop plant, it would obviously have to store it somewhere out of the crop parts. But in theory, if research could identify why certain plants store the toxins in certain areas, the possibility of breeding that into other plants is there.
I am having trouble remembering specific examples, but I seem to recall that in certain cases the plants have been harvested and the metal has actually been extracted for commercial uses.
Very interesting conversation though-thanks!
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This is coincidental Pete!
I have been checking out 'The $300 House' Challenge
http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=179&t=38969Some VERY low cost ideas in many entries!
Mike
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Solo
Check out this website:
Consider adding a way to rotate the crops so that each "plant" gets access to natural light.
Consider "linking" the containers together to share water pumps etc. but multiply the plants.
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Great link Phil, food for though (pun intended) Looks like a very expensive bit of rig however, I was hoping to get by with PVC pipe, round bar, production aquarium bubblers, and shop light fittings and able to construct on site.
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@solo said:
Kris,
For areas like Somalia and Haiti who's location is so close to the equator I fear they will be big ovens like a dog in a hot car.
I thought that as well... I realized that interior would need a structure to insulate and I imagined using 4inch foam core panels to insulate... each would need some type of cooling I would imagine. plus they have reefer units with refrigerators.
as far as windows I had imagined not actually destroying the usefulness of the containers by cutting holes in them. I had imagined leaving the doors open and designing a entry wall and ventilation system to pull and push air in and out through each compartment in a circle.
as for the cost of these containers used @ 2000 that's a good and normal price I found for non-seaworthy or used containers as well. however I believe that for your purposes and mine as well that there are so many of these in the world and that there are so many large companies that have control and stock in really unusable containers at least for their purposes...I feel we could get great numbers donated. imagine how many sit unused right this instant. and these companies love the opportunity to placate their detractors...
plus look at how many you could deliver all at once. 10,000
have you estimated the cost of this unit of yours?
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The idea sounds great, but wouldn't it be faster and cheaper to mitigate the famine, to fill those containers directly with cucumbers and milk?
Anyway, the population wouldn't directly be favoured with those I fear. Politics, mafia, war...
That happened in Haiti, that could hapen everywhere there is hunger but no organization. (and forgive my porr english) -
@solo said:
Jon, thanks for that info. Rhizofiltration looks like a great process for filtering water.
Just thinking out loud... why flowers and not something like food that can be given to the poor? is it because of the toxins in the water maybe?
About 40 years ago the engineering company I worked for did this kind of filtration at Lake Buena Vista at Disney World. I was communications director for the company and did an article on the project for our newsletter. After reading your post I did some more research and found that in addition to food, the plant life can be harvested and formed into charcoal briquets used for cooking and heating.
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I know this is an old thread but was wondering if anyone built one of these as I am I the process of building a 2400 plant with 600 seedling area (for 3000 total) system using a 12 by 46 storage garage. One of those portable ones sold at farm places or for construction offices. The one I am using is cute as it has a 4 ft front porch attached and a garage door on the side. Current costs are 6k for the cute building 3k for grow lighting and 2k for materials for hydroponic system using PVC downspouts and wooden support structures and basic fountain pumps. The only cost I do not have is solar panels and battery storage. Has anyone built one of these yet to know estimated costs. Trying to keep total cost under 15k. But it will produce 600 harvested leafy crops a week or 85 a day. Will be adding to the side wall outside a tuber system for potatoes carrots later for soil growth items.
To make a short question long wondering if anyone has built onesie willing to share costs?
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Some truly great ideas, as for increasing the natural light 'spread', solar tubes in the roof panels would diffuse the light and spread it across an area more effectively. Not pc but one of the major problems is population, they have far more children than the locations they live in can support and they do this so more can survive to care for them in their older years. This puts more strain on an already overstretched environment. Anyone recall the charity war cry of 'give a man a fish and his family is fed for a day, give him the tools and teach him to fish and they are fed forever'. Take a look at the fish stock survival numbers in african lakes and you will see these people have no long term ideas, which is what the area needs, not just food and shelter for today. Back on topic though, you guys should go to the UNHCC together and see where you could be productive, might just be a start of something outstanding. Good job and good luck.
PS, I know this is an old thread but it shows how poorly the charities work when you realise it is just as relevent now as when first posted. Doers rather than talkers.
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What I love most Pete is your passion to explore ideas - keep em coming!
The whole idea of containing this is where I see the problem, transport costs, solar costs etc. I wonder if a more standardised plastic green house its self wouldn't allow for the use of natural sun light and placed on bare earth help to pull water up from the ground where it can condense on the plastic roofing to help generate water?
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Awesome concept and really well modelled.
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