Do Mac's still have any solid graphical advantage over PC's?
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went down this path last year. needed to upgrade the old dell laptop, as my design software was suffering on it. been stuck over in pc land for the last x years since getting into design and architecture and i'm married to acad and a 3rd party overlay. was planning on weening myself from it with sketchup for most work, but had the dual boot option for when clients needed acad / 3rd party work.
priced it all up, and landed a dell precision m6400 for about half of what a comparable powerbook would have set me back. and i got the larger size and nicer screen. i did have a copy of xp to load for the dual boot on the mac so i could run acad and other software but i don't have to mess with it now.
i do miss some of the recent innovation on the mac hardware / software side. and i'm envious of shiny aluminum boxes that weigh less than the power brick for my dell... (i hate lugging this thing around for presentations... but i'm on the road enough that i do design work when i'm out of town)
but, for the $$ i couldn't beat it, especially being self employed.
now i'm looking at upgrading off of vista, and running my presentations from my android phone.
ideally i'll be picking up one of those google chrome notebooks (when they become available) or wait for HTC to come out with an android tablet so i can do road work on a smaller device. (no modeling, just estimates, presentations, etc.)and i'll need a workstation. the current machine is great for portability and modeling... but i'll need something to render with and do more complex work...
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@solo said:
Brodie, The whole 'tech savy' thing to me does not hold water, I remember going to the Apple store to buy my Imac (when they started using Intel chips), Normally I get my stuff from Fry's electronics (PC based), I noticed the folks buying Mac's actually had less tech knowledge than those PC counterparts, the way I saw it was they were not bothered knowing how it works, but rather that it works. That was the whole sales pitch I even got from the Apple salesman, his words which i cannot quote verbatim was that Mac's are hands free, plug and play, while PC's require tech knowledge.
I think most Mac users are part of the "I like cool shiny things" mindset, similar to the average iPhone user (of which I'm one also)Interesting observations. The iphone comment brings up another issue. There seem to be a good deal of folks who are just fine with their pc's but when it comes to phones and particularly mp3 players are die hard apple fans. Any thoughts on this, being an iphone user? I don't know if the iphone has any real competition as it's something I've never looked into. But I'm surprised by all of the ipod users. I got an mp3 player from Creative a few years back and am quite happy that I don't have an ipod (although I've never actually used one so maybe I don't know what I'm missing). Mostly I much prefer not being married to iTunes. I like the napster model where I just pay $15/month and get unlimited songs rather than paying for each individual song.
-Brodie
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from a programmer point of view (mine) Mac is a way better alternative :
- Ruby comes preinstalled,
- all extensions work and are compilable,
- Quartz Composer and Core Images filters,
- 64bit system,
- more polished applications
- not wasting time with malware and viruses
will not get back to Windows (even if I spent 18 years on that platform)
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@unknownuser said:
@solo said:
But that being the case, why do you think that there are still a great deal of graphic artists and visualizers who feel strongly about using a Mac? Do you think they are just holding on to old biases and are ignorant of the similarities between mac and pc now?
i personally think one reason a lot of designers/visualizers tend to use macs is because the computers themselves are designed/visualized much nicer (opinion of course).
same thing might happen with the pencils an artist might buy.. sure, i can get a 10pack of #2s for a buck but if i'm drawing all day long with pencils, i can easily see myself buying the $50 pencils.. or writing a book with a bic pen vs the $200 pen etc etc..
those might not be exact analogies but i'm just trying to make the point that's there's a whole lot more to it than the spec/cost ratio.if the life span of a computer is say 3 years then a professional user is faced with the decision of paying maybe 55¢/hr to use a mac or maybe 45¢ to use a pc..for many, paying the extra dime to use a mac is an easy choice and i personally don't feel like i'm being any more ripped of buying a mac over a pc.. (well, i pretty much feel like i'm being ripped off anytime i buy anything but that's a different topic)
another reason why the graphic artists might still be using macs is along the lines of what tom was saying.. they're used to them and know the ins in outs of them.. that's probably the #1 reason why i don't even consider a pc when buying a computer.. i mean, i'm sure i could pretty much figure out how to use windows as well as i can use osx after a year or so but the thought of the little things, 'how do i erase a file from the hard drive' or 'how do i change the desktop color' or 'how do i change a font' etc.. those type of things that i've spent minutes or hours on over the years, that's too much headaches that i don't want to go through again.
[not to mention the whole virus thing.. that's the #1 reason i bought a mac in the first place 12 years ago and still to this day, i've never used any sort of virus protection and i've never ever had and sort of problem]i dunno, this post isn't meant as an argument either way.. hopefully it's just a realistic look at why one person might spend an extra grand on an equally spec'd computer.
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I've always considered a PC to be more of a hobbyists computer. You can argue the OSX is a better (read, easier to use) OS and that the case looks nicer. These are reasonable considerations and I might even concede that the ratio of users should probably be the reverse of what it currently is (~85% pc vs. ~15% mac) if only because the average person probably doesn't demand very much from a computer (what do you actually need to browse facebook at the local Starbucks?) With that in mind, better looking case and (arguably) more accommodating OS should be more common.
My problem with Macs is that you have the computer that you get and that's it. You pay a premium for a good quality machine and it's a closed system. A PC, on the other hand, can be bought from Dell or HP or (better) built part by part. This is where the hobbyist part comes in. You can choose exactly what components to use -- where to spend money and where to save. How to set up the cooling, overclocking, etc., and when it starts to get a little long in the tooth you just upgrade certain parts. You can expect certain core parts to survive several years/systems.
I imagine the enjoyment of this is similar to people that would rather fix up a cheaper car to be something really awesome than buy a BMW.My only day to day use with an apple product is my ipod which I love/hate. I might be wrong, but I imagine this is indicative of apple as a company in general. It generally does what I want, is small and unobtrusive but is so controlling. Only certain file types, it has to be used with itunes, it can't just connect to any computer. Why does it have to be a good package that is so restrictive? Why not just drag-and-drop whatever file types instead of having to use their organizing software.
Finally, is it significant that bootcamp (or whatever) is so popular, just to run windows programs but there is no demand for the reverse?
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@dsarchs said:
Finally, is it significant that bootcamp (or whatever) is so popular, just to run windows programs but there is no demand for the reverse?
the reverse is that people buy macs.
well that and the fact that it's illegal to use OS X on non-apple computers but some people still do it.. it's called a hackintosh -
It's getting so they are all the same nowadays. . .
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@dsarchs said:
Finally, is it significant that bootcamp (or whatever) is so popular, just to run windows programs but there is no demand for the reverse?
That's a really interesting point. I wonder if the reason is that there are some things that Windows can do that OSX simply CAN'T do (ie. run AutoCAD) and so if you're going to use a Mac you need those workarounds. But as a Windows user, I've never thought, "crap I'd need OSX to do/open/run that."
-Brodie
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@unknownuser said:
That's a really interesting point. I wonder if the reason is that there are some things that Windows can do that OSX simply CAN'T do (ie. run AutoCAD)
brodie,
maybe you missed this?
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?id=15421056&siteID=123112anyway, i think the whole bootcamp thing is more/less a marketing ploy by apple to get people to switch to buying their computers instead of a pc.. probably a very successful venture by apple but that brings up a different thing.. apple is very very good at marketing.. i'm skeptical of them but somehow i've owned at least 7 macs, a few phones, and a handful of ipods.
maybe i'm just a sucker
[that said, i've never had any serious problems with the computers.. i had an issue with one of the phones but it was handled very well and replaced]
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It was not so long ago that I was having a similar discussion in the pub with a DTP friend of mine, he noticed I had an iPhone, he knew I drive an Infinity and BMW, I am working with graphics all day and just assumed based on my choices that I was a Mac guy like him. We chatted briefly about this and he also said the only reason he uses a Mac is because he always has and knows the ins and outs, he did mention that the screen resolutions are a plus for him, but that's another whole topic.
So I guess it really comes down to the OS IMO, when and if Apple becomes a bigger player (cannot see it really happening) then they will get the same malware, virus attention proportional to their market share, like the iPhone attacks and hacks, so will the OS go.The thing for me is I like to build or have my PC built according to what I need, I'd also like to change and upgrade when I can before the need to buy a new machine when the Mobo no longer supports the needed upgrade. I normally buy the cheapest, ugliest practical case but stuff it full of the best innards I can afford as to me it's not how sweet the ride looks but how fast it goes.
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I had missed AutoCAD for Mac, very interesting
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Another aspect regarding performance that hasn't been mentioned here is the quality of drivers.
Comparing a plenty of benchmarks (examples) lets assume that the effort that hardware producers put into driver development seems (partly) to depend on the size of the user base/ market share. If someone needs a high performing computer system, the "performance of the operating system" often isn't as important as the chosen hardware and its drivers. -
@aerilius said:
Comparing a plenty of benchmarks
I should point out that these figures are now rather out of date, because there was a major fix for 3D graphic speed in 10.6.5 (probably a call from Autodesk as Autodesk port their entire suite of 3D apps to Mac!)
This is however all rather elementary. A bit like those who obsess over which camera lenses are sharper than other makes of other lenses. The site Dpreview are a classic example of this failing, because all they ever talk about are specifications as opposed to handling. And if you look in the gallery, the pictures have no sense of composition to them either, ie they're generally not very good images.
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brodie,
perhaps the answer to your questions lies behind the answer to this question: why do most advertising agencies and video/film companies use macs?
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@unknownuser said:
But as a Windows user, I've never thought, "crap I'd need OSX to do/open/run that."
I take it you've never used Logic (a pro DAW) then?
Logic started life on Atari as C-Lab Notator/Creator. It then was ported to Windows and Mac as eMagic Logic. Then in the early naughties, Apple bought eMagic, and dropped support for Windows. As you can imagine, there was a major outcry. But many then made the switch from Windows to Mac, simply because MIDI and Audio were built into Mac OSX (like the Atari), and there was no hunting around to find the 'ultimate' driver for it. Most simply didn't have the time to fiddle around getting latency on the PC to work well.
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@edson said:
brodie,
perhaps the answer to your questions lies behind the answer to this question: why do most advertising agencies and video/film companies use macs?
exactly. Final Cut Pro and Logic 8!
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@edson said:
brodie,
perhaps the answer to your questions lies behind the answer to this question: why do most advertising agencies and video/film companies use macs?
Perhaps part of social identification?
Why do most
and use linux..? -
I think it's all about continually tinkering under the bonnet. If these people must, then let them be!
Both my brother and my father suffer from this obsession with Linux tinkering- I know it well!
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As we start moving towards GPU performance it gets a little trickier for Macs as many have noticed, the reason for this is not the hardware they use as it's all the same as a regular PC user, the problem probably is not even software, the problem is policy.
Apple has a closed software system, so if you need to upgrade your Nvidia card well then you are gonna have to wait or do without as just downloading new drivers is not as simple as going to the manufacturers site and downloading and installing, you need to wait until Apple has created that driver and released it, normally when they get around to it the card is a few upgrades behind. -
Do you really notice any difference? I mean I updated the drivers for an Nvidia card in my HP workstation. I be damned if could could have noticed the difference. Updates for the Mac come one or twice every couple of months or so. When an update for a card is needed, it's patched. I don't see the problem.
PS, as it ever occured to you that these patches for Windows may be needed- because MS are forever adding security fixes to their software. My Compaq had about 80 (!) security patches download the other day!
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