Trying to define SketchUp Limitations
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@unknownuser said:
I believe therefore that the biggest problem for new users is 5 fold:
1) They don't understand or know how to use components properly.
2) They leave shadows/textures/xray on all the time
3) They import from cad and don't purge unnecessary data (esp. layers)
4) They don't use scenes to control styles and cameras.
5) They don't use styles properly- and this is the most important part- because the Sketchup default settings are not the most efficientYou are right that these are things that most new users are unaware of - I've been using sketchup for around 2 years and I only found out about these techniques a few months ago.
It strikes me that these techniques are necessary workarounds that allow you to circumvent the limitations of the software. Doesn't this amount to treating the symptoms rather than the disease?
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@hieru said:
It strikes me that these techniques are necessary workarounds that allow you to circumvent the limitations of the software. Doesn't this amount to treating the symptoms rather than the disease?
These things are valid of all software. Keeping a clean model or drawing is essential for a good workflow. AutoCAD drawings becomes a nightmare to handle when people don't purge, use block etc.
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I'm using Sketchup to do mechanical drawings, and the size of my files is inconsequential compared to what you guys are doing. I currently have 2610 edges, and 1372 faces.
I have 22 layers in use at the moment, but that seems reasonable considering that I'm doing a mechanical drawing. If 22 layers is a problem, perhaps we need a fix.
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@thomthom said:
These things are valid of all software.
I've never had to do this sort of thing with any other software.
Learning good layer management in Photoshop or Illustrator is the closest I've come, but this has never had anything to do with software performance.
@unknownuser said:
Keeping a clean model or drawing is essential for a good workflow.
Well it's one thing to keep a clean model, but another matter entirely if you have to jump through hoops in order to prevent SU from grinding to a halt whilst navigating.
Even if you implement all of the measures mentioned by Meaker VI (all good advice by the way), you are only delaying the inevitable.
If I have an architectural model with lots of landscaping, plants or trees I have to place these elements on a separate layers and keep them hidden if I want to make basic modelling alterations. That doesn't feel like a natural way of working to me - it feels like a workaround.
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@fester225 said:
I have 22 layers in use at the moment, but that seems reasonable considering that I'm doing a mechanical drawing. If 22 layers is a problem, perhaps we need a fix.
From what I've done, having lots of layers (a recently imported Civil drawing, for example) by itself does glitch the program occasionally, but it doesn't really slow it down on it's own. If I import a multi-mile area drawing with tons of edges, but still under ~10 megs and has no other features (and I've turned off profiles) the model should still manipulate fine, but every once in a while it'll hang for no apparent reason. That's when I realize I left too many layers in the model and purge them out (since Civil drawings always have too many layers for what I'm doing). Having 10 or 20 or even more layers should never be a problem by itself if the rest of the model is small enough, and it sounds like for you that is true. Just make sure you're using groups and layering them instead of model geometry- geometry in sketchup doesn't like being on separate layers (You move a line on layer "A" and the connected face on hidden layer "B" still moves with it).
As for Hieru's remarks on this being an issue inherent to the software and a bug that we're solving the symptoms of, I'd say that is only half true, but completely fair. The software was not meant to do what many of us are doing with it; though as our friendly neighborhood guide Jody has pointed out- the engineers didn't put the limitations in on purpose, so that we could push its limits.
However, the untrue part is that you don't have any other software that is constantly rendering your model at all times like Sketchup is trying to do. I use Revit, Blender, Maya, PhotoShop, Illustrator, InDesign, CAD, and Sketchup, and of those, Sketchup is the only one constantly rendering everything all the time. While Revit, Blender, and Maya will all show shading and perhaps even textures, they usually only display basic model geometry. Revit can show shadows in a working window, but it slows it down to a grinding halt, much more so than I've experienced with Sketchup on equivalently-sized models. PhotoShp and the others don't really render anything, CAD often staggers at silly things like "hatches" and "lines," while zooming in a good Photoshop file with filters and blending modes can take some time on my machine. So, in order to make Sketchup do what I want, I turn off the "rendering" options - lines with weights, styles, shadows, textures, etc.
I do similar things in all the programs, the only difference is that Sketchup starts out with many of it's most processor-intensive rendering options turned on and there isn't a one-click "Draw" mode, which I think every other program I listed has.
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I certainly didn't mean to give the impression that I was spitting daggers at SU.
I've only really scratched the surface when it comes to SU's potential, but I think it's a fantastic programme and I get a great deal of enjoyment out of modelling with SU........sometimes I just get a bit frustrated with issues that seem to have been a problem for a while.
Like you say, the limitations weren't designed into the software. Let's just hope that the next version allows people to push the limits even farther.
I imagine that if every issue raised on this thread was dealt with tomorrow, it wouldn't be long before the most talented SU gurus started to complain of new limitations.
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The obj exporter should be in the free version of SU, nobody has to pay for this. Am I right? A simple request.
SU has a bad reputation around just because of this! -
@michaliszissiou said:
The obj exporter should be in the free version of SU, nobody has to pay for this. Am I right? A simple request.
SU has a bad reputation around just because of this!The next version won't have a DWG/DXF importer.
What's that about?
There I go looking on the negative side of things again ........I guess my GPP must be on the fritz!
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- What is the largest SketchUp file you've created? Would you consider it to be efficiently made (a healthy file?) Could you make it smaller? What aspects did you "write off" and just not usable in that large file? How many edges did it have? Faces? Materials?
The largest file I have created is 130MB without textures just basic grey material. It was a healthy file and couldn't be cut down very much. Was pretty slow and unresponsive however at this stage.
- What is the largest file you've imported into SketchUp? What kind of file was it? Did you have to alter the file any before you got it to actually import into SketchUp? Did you have to do much clean-up on the file once it was in SketchUp?
About 40MB. Yeah 3ds files always need cleaning up getting rid of all the extra geometry. This can take anything from hours to days, ive spent a week removing geometry before.
- Whats the largest file you've exported from SketchUp? What kind of file did you create? How long did the export take? Did it export successfully on the first try or did you have to adjust your file or export settings some before it worked?
Biggest file I have exported is 30-50MB however its pretty touch and go it takes absolutely forever and crashes after about 10% 9 out of 10 times with large files.
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Besides the filesize and amount of elements limitations i would like to add this one:
It seems to me Sketchup becomes slower in time when doing a time consuming job
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Do you mean the longer its running the slower it becomes? I haven't come across this problem before and I have had it running for days at a time using both MAC & PC versions, maybe its a hardware problem?
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I'm not typically importing anything in SU, so I'll give you some numbers based on a mechanical drawing I'm doing.
I'm running SketchUp 7.1 under Linux/Ubuntu/CodeWeavers-CrossOver. My machine has 4Gb of memory, of which I'm using about 1/3rd. Video is 512Mb, and I have no idea how much of that memory is being used.
The file in question is 4.7Mb and was created entirely inside SU. At this point it has started losing entire layers spontaneously. I have no ideas how many faces it has. There are no textures. There are in excess of 20 layers.
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During the last two months, every time I visit this site I have to restart my rooter-modem. It blocks all my communication. This is the only site that this is happening. I'll stop visiting this, I hope you'll fix this soon. Not my fault as it is THE ONLY site that causes these problems.
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@michaliszissiou said:
During the last two months, every time I visit this site I have to restart my rooter-modem. It blocks all my communication. This is the only site that this is happening. I'll stop visiting this, I hope you'll fix this soon. Not my fault as it is THE ONLY site that causes these problems.
This should go in a post of its own - far off topic.
I've never heard of a website that cause a router to crash. With the amount of visitors SCF receive this problem would have been reported a long time ago if it had affected everyone. I'm pretty sure this is not something can be fixed from SCF's side. Most likely it's your router itself. -
The last model i made was 98mb. 1199471 edges, 5216669 faces 883 component instances 1845 groups 311 materials, 20 layers
I have noticed since i got my new i7 920 processor with 12gb ram & 2gb Nvidia GC it can handle larger files with out any lag or problems.
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You may need his help...
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My Model is 8.7 Million edges, 3.9 Million Faces, and only 20.0mb. I know this thread is old but it sounds like i'm the winner. I'm also considering upgrading to a Quadro 4000 in large part because of this model so I was wondering if anyone with a Quadro card would like to try it out for me.
I can't get the upload to work so it's hosted at https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D06100_7191311_227566
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I have used Sketchup since it's first year. It has been improved greatly but handicapped by so many owners. Still has great flaws but I have not seen anything easier and better. Spinning Beach ball is pretty common even with the fastest i7, still crashes a lot, but some people are figuring it out and doing amazing work with it somehow? There must be a secret to making it work so well? But no one is telling. I for one spent enough time with it!
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@steve rugg said:
Still has great flaws but I have not seen anything easier and better.
Couldnt agree more Steve. I decided to shift and abandon Sketchup for its "lack of robustness" in handling complicated models way too many times. But the ease of use factor and the countless good things that is added every single day kept me coming back.
Thank goodness , very sloooow, but making great progress... I still see a promising future for SU as the user base grows tremendously.. It may not be "the one and only" 3d software you'll ever need, but it is becoming more and more indispensable in many 3d production workflow.
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