SU8 - WISHLIST
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@chrisglasier said:
Sorry for the bump, but yesterday's Official Google Blog announcement Making ads more interesting is so pertinent to this topic.
Here is the first paragraph (italics emphasis by me):
At Google, we believe that ads are a valuable source of information — one that can connect people to the advertisers offering products, services and ideas that interest them. By making ads more relevant, and improving the connection between advertisers and our users, we can create more value for everyone. Users get more useful ads, and these more relevant ads generate higher returns for advertisers and publishers. Advertising is the lifeblood of the digital economy: it helps support the content and services we all enjoy for free online today, including much of our news, search, email, video and social networks.
christ man, it's like you're reading this bs and fully missing the word 'ads'... first and foremost, this is about advertising -- not 'a valuable source of information' (well, i guess it's valuable to google)
i think we can all agree that a humungous majority of ads are for lame products.. how is better advertising going to change that? seriously, keep advertising out of software..
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I agree with Jeff.
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I 'tend' to agree as well.
(...but not too much, as the 'advertisement' topic together with 'continuously bashing on SU' almost got me banned from this forum.)So.....Sketchup 7 rocks !
Sketchup 8 will be fantastic!
...And advertisement is heaven ! Yeah! -
Oh no, adverts on SCF are clearly essential to its upkeep but when working in SU, as I do all day, everyday, I wouldn't want to feel like I'm being marketed to all the time. Sounds very distracting.
Solo wrote
@unknownuser said:
There are many select and paste apps out there, like 20-20, hell even Ikea has an online version of what you would like SU to be.
Pete I like the potential for this in SU, but it worries me that if this becomes the focus for Google, there will be no impetus to develop SU anymore as a serious modeller.
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@linea said:
I agree with Jeff.
Why is that? I seem to remember that you work in the building industry. If that is correct you will be aware that a significant part of the work of designers, contractors and subcontractors is sourcing materials. So how do these people know what exists? How do they justify what is good value for money ... and on and on? Where do they find this valuable (if not essential) source of information if not from manufacturers who want to sell the products?
I reckon this is in line with Google's rational to stick with core revenue coming from search and advertising. They are determined to improve pertinence. I believe if, in addition, ads are made reusable and accessible only at the time needed, this type of consensual advertising takes on a new form and a new social significance.
Chris
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@kwistenbiebel said:
I 'tend' to agree as well.
(...but not too much, as the 'advertisement' topic together with 'continuously bashing on SU' almost got me banned from this forum.)Nice. I'd like to take the opportunity to point out that it was your images that got me considering using SU. In fact, I'm fairly certain those do more to advocate SU than Coen's occasional rant.
Coen -credit where credit is due, yeah?
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@linea said:
... but it worries me that if this becomes the focus for Google, there will be no impetus to develop SU anymore as a serious modeller.
Where does Google say it is developing SU as a serious modeller? Does the Sketchup team give you that impression? I remember that Sketchup does not even get a mention in Google's milestones. My opinion is that Sketchup models could be a valuable element in the search and advertising business, and because of this it may well attract more funding and become a serious modeller out of true commercial rationale.
Don't you think?!
Chris
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No chris i don't think that. You're forgetting that are people here that use sketchup as a tool for work and not for hobby and the last thing we need is getting anoyed by ads with our work tool...what stinkie said can be aplied how sketchup start it, it was others sketchup users great works that made others notice skethcup not ads or google earth, and now what you and Google are saying is "let's use the sketchup's fame as a good modeler to make people use it now for Google Earth and Publicity..."
And what do you mean by "Where does Google say it is developing SU as a serious modeller? Does the Sketchup team give you that impression?"?!?! You use sketcup since what version? 6? 5? In case you don't know or forgot about it, initially sketchup was developed as a ArchViz and Concept Design tool, but as google bought it starting losing his ArchViz focus and gaining a Google Earth focus. Righ not is also losing the concept design focus and becoming more and more a tool for companys advertise their objects by 3DWareouse. But i agree with you about SK team doesn't giving that impression, and now you also want sketchup be used to get ads...getting better and better...
You need to keep in mind one thing, when The Sketchup core stops beeing about creative modeling and start being about ads, GE, or any other thing, Sketchup will DIE, because it will lose the users that made him what it is today. And what will you show then to promote the use of sketchup? Companys poducts? Google Earths Blocks? be carefull with what you wish for...
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@linea said:
potential for this in SU, but it worries me that if this becomes the focus for Google, there will be no impetus to develop SU anymore as a serious modeller.
the only way google will develop SU into a serious modeler is if they can make money off it.. more money than they could make by sticking ads into the software which is highly unlikely..
google is a corporation and like all corporations, their #1 priority is maximizing profit.. that's what make threads like this a bit of a joke.. don't think for a second that SU developers couldn't implement most if not all of the 'wishes' in this thread.. if it weren't for the drive to make as much money as possible, SU would be one badass little piece of software.. probably helping us do things we can't even imagine at this time..
SU and high poly count etc is a micro example of the big picture -- motivation based on maximizing profit hinders technological advancement.. we like to think that we're in some crazy tech revolution but really, we're nowhere close to what could be happening and this same thing can be applied to most fields out there.. energy, medical, education, etc..
@chrisglasier said:
Why is that? I seem to remember that you work in the building industry. If that is correct you will be aware that a significant part of the work of designers, contractors and subcontractors is sourcing materials. So how do these people know what exists? How do they justify what is good value for money ... and on and on? Where do they find this valuable (if not essential) source of information if not from manufacturers who want to sell the products?
don't try to feed me this.. i am a designer/contractor/foreman.. i'm involved first hand in all processes from concept through final product.. i admit, i'd love it if SU was tied into a central database of all resources available to me and helped me find the best materials for said project.. this is the spiel you and google are trying to give here but in reality, it's not being implemented that way.. you're not trying to give me the best possible solution - you're trying to make me use products by companies that have given you money to lie that their product is in fact the best for my scenario..
weeding through advertisements actually makes my materials research more difficult.. Ads have nothing to do with helping me and they are by no means a 'valuable source of information'.. they are a hindrance to the creative process and must be kept out of creative software.. -
I am sorry this aspect of this topic has drawn misunderstanding of both intention and detail, and I want to repeat some things to correct this. Some parts of Jeff's last post offer a good opportunity.
@unknownuser said:
the only way google will develop SU into a serious modeler is if they can make money off it..
I agree, most likely indirectly like Google Search.
@unknownuser said:
... more money than they could make by sticking ads into the software which is highly unlikely..
I agree, but what if the ads were the components themselves, each component linked to attribute lists for dimensions, weight, colour options, prices, delivery times and on and on.
@unknownuser said:
google is a corporation and like all corporations, their #1 priority is maximizing profit..
I agree but I don't think that's evil unless evil is used to achieve it.
@unknownuser said:
... that's what make threads like this a bit of a joke..
seems a little disrespectful; there appears to me (a layman) to be many useful technical suggestions regarding the software. But I joined this topic when I read Solo's idea to turn the wishlist into a petition. This seemed without grounds and without purpose, so my alternative suggestion was a commercial rationale to support implementation of at least the main wishlist items.
@unknownuser said:
... i'd love it if SU was tied into a central database of all resources available to me and helped me find the best materials for said project ..
Yes this is the holy grail for people like you and me, and I explain how this can be achieved here. But in any case I think you might temper your less well thought out remarks if you were to consider ads as datasheets. A comprehensive scheme for offering such sheets for analysis and assembly of models would make for a commercial scheme of competitive collaboration*. Core software could be funded from the revenue.
Hope this irons out any misunderstanding.
Chris
*A managed street market is an example of competitive collaboration.
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I read many reviews in summary what you need to sketchup is power!
to continue to grow and reach more users than there is disregard for the weakness of working with many polygons
Google, give more power to sketchup ......... please!
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I went from a single core 2.8ghz amd with 1.5gig ram on xp to a quadcore 2.6ghz intel i7 with 12gigs of ram on vista 64.
Sketchup ran a lot better on my older computer.
We NEED 64 support and multiple core support badly. I cant even run sketchup on my current system without 10-15 second pauses every few minutes. If google doesn't try to fix these problems in their next major patch I will be forced to ditch sketchup all together. That will be sad but I cant afford to continue to use antiquated software like this.
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Master, Yesterday I was at Fry's electronics to enquire about the new i7's, one of the tech guys who strangely enough actually knows something about computers (can't say that about the rest of the staff) downloaded a free version of SU 7 so that I could see the performance.
The system he tested on had the ASUS mobo, 12 GB ram, and the i7 940 chip (stock) at 2.95mhz.
Anyway SU ran pretty well AFAIK, then he switched the ATI 2 something video card to a Nvidia x280 and the speed was completely different it zoomed through a bunch of WH models we downloaded to test at one point we had 60 trees and it orbited like nothing I'd seen before. He did have the 'turbo' function going which detected that SU was only using one core so it switched the others off and moved resources to that core in essence over clocking that core to well over 3.4 mhzDunno if this helps, but maybe you can set your rig to work this way or maybe check your GPU settings.
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Solo, What is the "turbo" function?
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Best way to describe is with this video.
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Thanks Solo, i7, even with its entry level chip seems to be the way to go.
When you think about it, what we really mean when we say that we need multi core support for SU is that in its current environment, SU is too slow. From what you described, throwing hardware at the problem may resolve some user's issues for now.
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This is getting to a point that starts to be kind of funny seeing the "world upside down"...
Now, it's not the software that evolves to take full advantadge of new hardware but instead it's the hardware that evolves to make a "better" use of old software...and the worst part is we start considering this normal, like it's the hardware manufacters fault and not the sketchup developers.
Love can really make us blind...the question now is: for how long?
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I read somewhere that a very famous TaiChi teacher once said (quite a while ago) that America got to the moon before China because it was on the side of the world closest to the moon:-) If it has to be someones fault, how about the user? If you want to ship international goods, I would not recommend a row boat. You sure its love, that its not because we are cheap?-)
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Its perfectly reasonable to have hardware that handles single threaded applications well. It is not possible to multi-thread a lot of applications.
The fact that SU is in the single threaded list is a different matter.
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honolulu wrote
@unknownuser said:You sure its love, that its not because we are cheap?-)
No I don't think its because most of us are cheap. The low cost/no cost of SU is not the only reason people use it. I think most of us would agree that it is a very pragmatic way to model. The same can't be said about other apps whether they are cheap (blender) or expensive (3ds max).
As for Google making money out of SU, I really don't think it is an issue, if they wanted they could throw major resources at it, but it probably isn't a priority. Even if they charged more for the Pro version and stuck in all the ads that have been discussed, I imagine SU could never achieve a significant bank balance in Google terms. After all, Google isn't a 3d software house, we must be so low down the agenda for them. I imagine we are like those nice but small time clients that you can only make a small profit with. While your doing their work, you can't help but think you should be focusing on your main projects.This isn't a criticism of Google, just a suggestion of how they might see it. But until SU has functionality that matches other 3d software, I can't see how it could ever be profitable. Sooner or later another simple, free or affordable modeller will come along. As for the future of SU, I wish Google would consider open-sourcing SU. Google could license SU under the GPL license, this would mean there would always be a free core product but developers would be able to develop high end versions and sell them. Google wouldn't profit directly but presumably one obvious area that SU would develop would be in web functionality so ultimately Google would profit somewhere along the line.
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